NGC / vs / PCGS coins $$$

A JOKE, As drink coasters go , pcgs is the best protection for your table. This is just what I think about slabs. It's the coin, not the plastic.

 

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Okay, my error.

 

I agree.

I agree.

I disagree.

One of the fellows here enlightened me. There is one place where there is a dramatic difference between PCGS and NGC ...

The frequency at which they award the perfect grade of 70.

NGC is far, far more likely to give out 70s. I'm talking about modern coins here - proofs, state quarters, etc. Depending on the issue, they are 15 to 30 times more likely than PCGS to deal out a PR70.

Check the census data. It's true for every issue. The two companies have similar standards, except here - they have a very different philosophy about 70s.

PCGS modern proofs are typically 1%-3% 70s, almost all the rest 69s. In really late dates, NGC is sometimes more than 50% perfect 70 !

Now check the price / sales data. As expected, PCGS 70s sell for much, much more than NGC. Maybe 10 or 15 times more, depending on the issue.

And here's the rub - these moderns are disproportionately collected by beginners and less experienced collectors. They are more likely to extend the observation that "PCGS sells for more" way beyond its bounds, into places where it simply makes no sense.

Which is almost everywhere.

<edit> Other things to keep in mind - NGC 69s trade for about the same price as PCGS 69s.

The difference is in the 70s. For both companies 70s bring a nice premium over their 69s - but with PCGS, it is much more extreme.

 

Wow, I can't believe the Jonestown Massacre found it's way into this discussion. To be fair, though, the majority were physically forced to drink the poison, and parents whose children were forced to drink it slugged theirs down knowing that their children were about to die. Apparently, it also took about 10 minutes for the poison to work, and those 10 minutes were total agony for the victim.

I've read most of the posts already, and I am of the belief that market forces alone have chosen PCGS king, despite the fact that there is very little difference between the two. And while I could care less about CAC, like others have pointed out, CAC-stickered coins, be they PCGS or NGC, are trading at par (if the coins grade the same, of course).

 

CAC does not sticker "PQ" coins as the marketplace understands PQ, but rather they sticker coins that are average for the grade. In your example, CAC very well might sticker all 3 coins. CAC is just trying to redefine the term PQ to mean "average for the assigned grade".

 

As a realitive newcomer to the great dance that is coin collecting, I have an observation that hasn't been mentioned yet...

There are a lot of TPGs out there and most of them BAD. PCGS is the only acronym I DON'T see being copied. I'm getting better now, but at one point if I saw a slabbed coin that wasn't PCGS I had to double check to see if they were on the GOOD or the BAD list. (IGC, NGC, NTC, etc., etc.)

To this day the only ones I'm sure of at a glance is PCGS and ANACS.

Maybe this is influencing the buying habits of some of the newer collectors, or maybe in some cases it's just a case of mistaken identity.

 

Heres my view.......If I see a coin in a PCGS slab.....I believe.

If I see a coin in *ANY* other slab, all I think is.....whats the reason this wasnt submitted to PCGS?

Now, Im talking serious coins here, not low buck.

 

NTC is definitely on my BAD list.

NGC is definitely on my GOOD list.

Partially based upon reputation (which carries much weight)...

... but mostly based upon what I've seen with my own eyes, and good experiences with the company.

 

There are many reasons. Here are some -

Compared to NGC,

• PCGS is much, much slower
• PCGS charges more
• PCGS is less consistent

That's only my personal experience. Perhaps others have a different opinion.

 

He also knows his NGC graded coins will not sell for the same price as the same PCGS grade.

but he saved a few bucks on the grading fee...and got the coins back five days sooner.

I see lots of NGC graded coins....every morning on HSN.

Pluto is a Planet.

 

What I get from this thread [all things being equal and in full recognition that one should buy the coin and not the slab] is that if you are selling a coin now, it's better if it's in a PCGS slab because that's where the believers are gathered. If you are buying a coin now, it's better if it's in an NGC slab because that's where the experts are gathered. If you buy a PCGS slab now and hold it, there is a good chance you'll regret it because NGC is actually doing a better job and there is nothing to guarantee that PCGS will always stay on top of the marketing heap. Nothing in life or business is permanent. PCGS is the aging champ with declining skills just waiting to be knocked out by the better opponent waiting for a title shot. No amount of rooting will prevent the inevitable.

 

I go by the greysheet as to the value of a coin in a given grade, if a real MS 65 is in either slab, I will not pay more for a PCGS slab over an NGC. Typically, I don't and base my price to buy on the coin, not the type of TPG service holder it is in. ICG and ANACS also have slabbed very accurately and I will pay the right price for those too. The only advantage I can see with PCGS is that they guarantee copper coins for color, the other services don't, but I still buy copper in NGC holders.

 

I agree.... The only reason people pay more for PCGS slabbed coins (based on grade) is because they have fallen prey to the marketing scheme known as the PCGS price guide.


If the coin is a MS64 it is a MS64 regardless of the holder.

 

Grey sheet prices are for certified coins that are nice for the grade with no problems. RAW coins should be sold at a lesser price. I will never buy a Dollar as a MS 65 unless it is certified.

 

"Sightseen wholesale prices for accurately graded US Coins certified or raw."

That is the statement on the front page of the greysheet. Like others have already said these are wholesale prices. Wholesale would typically be prices dealers would be willing to buy and sell amongst other dealers. I'm sure this is not always the case as people make up their own minds on what they actually do; however, I rarely see stuff advertised at wholesale prices, and rarely am offered these prices when dealing wiht a dealer.

It is hard for me to make money selling to a dealer, although it is possible and I sometimes do this. Usually in order to do this I would have had to purchase something well below the greysheet bid in order to turn a profit selling to a dealer as they will even slightly discount the bid price.

 

No sir, with respect that is not true, Greysheet pricing as defined on the Greysheet itself is for raw or certified coins. Now, you and many other collectors when getting into high grades with higher dollars may not feel confident buying a highier grade coin UNLESS it is in a slab. I however, do feel confident buying some high grade coins since I have learned to grade fairly well and bring my better half who is super picky when it comes to grading. I have to get the nod from her in most cases just be be sure. :') We both have to agree and it has to be a problem free rock solid MS-65 for us to buy it, but with diligence it can be done with some savings in the process. For example we purchased a roll of 1938-D Buffalo nickels years ago that we and the dealer were calling MS-63+ to some MS-64 and paid about $13.00 each. We sold most of them on eBay-back when eBay was a good place to buy and sell-for usually more than double the price we paid. People that purchased them were very happy and started to slab them with grades no less than MS-64. One guy in Hawaii sent me an e-mail with a scan of one we sold him that he sent to NGC and it came back graded MS-67!!!!

 

I fail to agree with you on this one. I only collect slabbed coins. I carefully purchase each coin with caution but constantly check value. My filing system works and I can comfortably look at each coin without touching the raw coins. I can also allow anybody else who comes over to look at them without worrying that they'll touch in incorrectly, drop it or damage it. I'd hate to go to jail for murder for such a mistake like that! :mouth:

 

Professionally graded coins almost always carry a premium. I was talking more specifically about why some people pay more for a PCGS slab vs. an NGC slab.

IMO that reason is because of the way PCGS markets coins they grade... primarily through the price guide. I totally understand paying more for a graded coin, although I think you can get better deals if you buy the coin raw, and then have it graded.