NGC / vs / PCGS coins $$$

What's Kool aid mean. Sorry guys I guess I have not heard everythign even after all these years.

 

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My personal opinion is that - people blindly believe PCGS is better. Then again if you are doing the PCGS registry they have to be PCGS graded coins. Next, again my personal opinion, is that I see fewer questionable coins in PCGS slabs than NGC or ANACS slabs. It does not mean that I do not see questionable PCGS coins or that I would bid more for a PCGS slab. For some of the coppers I collect I would rate them (1) PCGS, (2) NGC or ANACs. This also does not mean I will not bid on or buy NGC or ANACs slabbed coins. I do buy the coin and not the slabs. These are just my personal opinions.

 

I kind of like it, I can get good coins at a better price when they are in NGC slabs.

 

If my coin has a slab on it, it is because it happened to come around the coin, much like a 2x2, I don't move it out, because honestly it stores that way conveniently.

 

Remember Jim Jones? Cult leader in the mid to late '70s who founded Jonestown in Guyana so he could move his flock away from the prying eyes of the US government. When a US Congressman went to investigate they murdered him and his entourage.

Knowing there would be hell to pay for killing a Congressman Jim Jones took the coward's way out - and took his flock with him. Jones had a batch of Kool-Aide made spiked with cyanide. The faithful believers drank the Kool-Aide. Many gave it to their babies and children. Those that refused to drink the Kool-Aide were shot.

When the Feds arrived in Jonestown they found an incredible scene of over 900 bloated bodies rotting in the jungle heat.

'Drink the Kool-Aide' means to blindly accept a phylosophy no matter if it leads to your doom.

 

Ok. No one has done it, but if I'm spending a bunch of money, I'm looking for the "Authentication" that a slab offers - if the picture is good, you can judge somewhat well the grade.

But on my budget, if I'm spending 100+ on a coin, I kinda like the comfort of a slab. No offense to BQ!

 

IMO....

I definatley prefer NGC to PCGS.
NGC is FARRRR more consistant, IMHO.
Plus, I will not pay more for anyones name.
I would even buy an SGS coin, if I could see it in hand and it were superior to another TGP's that I were looking at.
I don't think we have to worry about that happening, but you get my point.

 

I think it has very little to do with Mr. Guth, whom I like, by the way.

Mostly it has to do with PCGS winning the marketing game. Their registry is more popular and since it descriminates against NGC coins then rgistry-type coins tend to sell for more because they have a larger group of buyers chasing them than the same coin in an NGC slab. This leads to higher prices for the pop top coins in PCGS holders which leads to the perception that they are better quality-wise/value-wise than NGC holdered coins. Which in turn leads the marketplace to begin to value other PCGS coins more highly, even when they aren't registry grade coins. (This would be the kool-ade).

the final step that makes it a self fulfilling prophecy is that dealers then recognize the price trend and every properly graded NGC coin is cracked out and submitted to PCGS to get the plastic premium leaving only the mistakes still in NGC holders and all of NGC's best work reholdered into PCGS slabs. This is the part that is most damaging to NGC, because it perpetuates the myth that they are inferior because their properly graded coins aren't on the market anymore.

That is why CAC is so good for NGC, now their best work will remain in NGC holders, since with the stickers they trade at par with PCGS stickered coins and above PCGS unstickered coins.

 

Wow, very well said and makes tons of cents !!!

 

At least give the poor guy some credit for being the leader behind the marketing or was the other gal who was behind it? i am really bad with names and cant remember the name of the lady who is heading that that right now but hopefully you can shed some more light on it. it will be interesting to see what happens in the grading game now with CAC grading the graders. I didnt know you knew Ron

 

Yes but CAC also certifies PCGS or authenticates or gives it a passing grade or whatever the heck it does for an extra 150 bucks.

 

It would help if people understood exactly what CAC does and does not do. What they do is they affix their sticker to the slabs of previously-graded coins that they find are Premium Quality (PQ) for the grade. CAC does not "certify" a TPG's grade.

They operate on the premise that all coins within a certain grade are not the same. Suppose you have three 1909-S VDB cents, all graded NGC MS-63. Coin A is the nicest of the bunch and definitely a high-grade MS-63 but not quite good enough to be a 64. Think of Coin A as grading MS-63.9.

Coin B is right in the middle for an MS-63. Think of Coin B as grading MS-63.5.

Coin C is the worst of the bunch. It barely made the grade of MS-63. Think of Coin C as grading MS-63.0.

So, although all three coins are graded MS-63 we see that one is clearly superior to the others. PQ for the grade.

It is Coin A that CAC would affix their sticker to. Coin C would be returned without a sticker. Coin B may or may not get a sticker (probably not being middle of the road).

Coin A, with the CAC sticker, would command a higher price than other '09-S VDBs slabbed as MS-63 without the CAC sticker. Or at least that is the theory.

It is also thought that a CAC sticker would put an NGC slab on par with a PCGS slab of the same grade with a CAC sticker, i.e., it would remove any perceived difference between the two TPGs.

CAC does not charge $150 per coin for their opinion. I checked their web site (very easy to do by the way) and their prices start at $10 for coins valued up to $500 and a 7-day turnaround, $20 up to $5,000 and 7 days, $40 up to $10,000 and 3 days, $100 up to $99,999 and one day, and $200 for rarities of $100,000+ and same day.

I hope this clears things up.

 

The reason people pay more is the Superior Quality. Look at images 1,2,&3 and you'll clearly see why pcgs is the best. You can vote for your favorite but it looks like no contest. John

 

anacs 1916D Merc ag-3, ngc 2001d buffalo ms69, pcgs1940 Merc ms 66

 

Ok maybe I used certify loosely. but I also wrote..whatever it does...Its still a'' this coin is better than that coin thing''. I was wrong about the prices.

 

I personally like pcgs better for a few reasons. (1 I find the white background of the ngc coins very distracting(2 If i see two comparable pieces of the same grade/date and the same price i will pick up the PCGS because even though i am a collector if i ever sell i can get more money especially bust halfs were on heritage pcgs is 800 $ were ngc is 400.(3 There seems to be more cases of counterfeit NGC holders then PCGS.

This being said if i see a coin that looks much nicer in a NGC slab thne a PCGS slab i will go for the NGC coin. I have about 4 NGC coins and 8 pcgs

 

Recent auction prices only tell you at what price transactions are taking place. They don't tell you anything about the value of the coin. Price and value are not the same thing. Over the long term, you can avoid a lot of problems by recognizing that. Of course, if the goal is to simply take advantage of a "market inefficiency" and extract money from people who have a bit too much faith in the plastic, then it makes sense to put the coins in PCGS holders, sell them, and pocket the difference.

Call it coin arbitrage.

 

Perception. PCGS coins are worth more precisely because people believe that they are. It's a self-perpetuating myth.

You can change people's perceptions but it's difficult and requires educating a lot of people. Good luck... when even a lot of the educated coin collectors and investors continue to believe that PCGS plastic somehow makes the coin worth more, it will continue to be true.

I've given up on trying to alter the perceptions of others. But personally, 99.999% of the time I'll absolutely refuse to buy any slabbed coin... and in the rare cases I do I won't pay more for one coin over another just because of what plastic it's in. It's the coin that's worth something, not the plastic, as far as I'm concerned. If the rest of the world insists on believing the world is flat when I think it's round, let them, don't see how it affects me any.

 

can you please explain your pictures? They are indecipherable to me.

 

My comment was tongue-in-cheek.