NGC or PCGS: The Ultimate Poll

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by silverspoonvint, May 9, 2012.

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Your opinion on the top TPG's NGC & PCGS

  1. PCGS only

    10 vote(s)
    6.1%

  2. NGC only

    5 vote(s)
    3.0%

  3. PCGS preferred NGC okay

    46 vote(s)
    27.9%

  4. NGC preferred PCGS okay

    34 vote(s)
    20.6%

  5. Both equal

    37 vote(s)
    22.4%

  6. I like ANACS!!

    4 vote(s)
    2.4%

  7. I hate TPG's

    14 vote(s)
    8.5%

  8. this poll is dumb

    15 vote(s)
    9.1%
Page 6 of 13
  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK Winged, first of all, when I said "other coins" - that does not mean all other coins. That means some other coins. PCGS is tougher on some, and NGC is tougher some.

    And the one who is tougher is not limited only by coin type either. There are lots of different things that play a part. For example, when it comes to special designations NGC is tougher than PCGS is. That alone covers how many different types of coins ? With some toning I believe NGC is tougher than PCGS, and with other toning I believe PCGS than NGC. Same thing goes with white coins. Same thing goes with problem coins. Same thing goes with modern coins, and same thing goes with classic coins. What I'm trying to get across is that there are all kinds of reasons, different categories that a coin may fall into, for one to be tougher than the other. And sometimes, they (NGC & PCGS) even reverse roles.

    What a lot of people don't realize is that NGC and PCGS are in constant competition with one another. Throughout their histories they have each done things, changed their standards, changed their company policies, all in the interest of offering something or doing something differently in order to attract more customers, or even steal customers away from the other guy.

    People seem to forget things like prior to 2001 (or thereabouts) NGC would not grade any coin minted after 1964. They wouldn't even look at them ! Then there are the issues of 6FS vs 5FS, NGC changed their policy and finally agreed to grade 5FS coins just so they could get customers back that they had lost to PCGS because PCGS was more liberal when grading these coins.

    There aren't any set rules Winged. These 2 companies play against each other just like all other businesses play against each other. They will do whatever they have to do to try and get business for themselves and take it away from the other guy. And they do this by setting themselves apart and making themselves different than the other guy. So with some copper coins NGC is tougher than PCGS and with other copper coins PCGS is tougher than NGC. The sate statement applies to silver coins and gold coins - and all of the other variables that I mentioned above.

    It used to be that experienced collectors and experienced dealers on the various coin forums would readily agree on exactly which company was tougher on exactly which type of coins. But over the years, with all of the changes that each company has made those lines have blurred. And things are not that cut and dried anymore. In today's world there are too many other variables involved and each of those variables plays a part in deciding which company is tougher on which coin.

    And it also used to be that the collectors and dealers who submitted coins would as a general rule submit their coins, depending on what the coin was, to the company that was known to be tougher on that particular coin. But even that has changed. And it has changed because now there is a large segment of people who will submit their coins to the company that they believe is easiest on that particular coin. And they do this because there are so many plastic buyers out there now, they they know they can get better prices for their coin by going with the company most likely to assign the highest grade to that particular coin. And of course the TPGs know this, so they play up to it as well and give their customers what they want. And that helps create repeat business for them.

    It's just like with the different types of slabs. Each company is known for using a particular slab design for a particular period of years. So if you can identify the slab design, you can pin down the period of years during which that slab design was used. And if you can identify the time period, then you can also identify the grading standards that particular company was known for at that time. And since their standards and policies changed at various periods of time, it makes a difference as to which was the tougher when that coin was graded. There is just a ton of stuff to know in order to figure it all out !

    Or, you can throw it all out the window, and grade the coin yourself ;)

    Of course the TPGs love discussions like this. It's candy for them. Discussions like this tend to polarize readers into their separate camps resulting in the fans of each becoming even more adamant in the belief that they have made the right choice. Not even realizing that that is exactly what the company wants.
     
    GDJMSP, May 12, 2012
    #101 + Quote Reply
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  3. Bart9349

    Bart9349 Junior Member

    I was surprised at the biased responses in this thread till I realized it was embedded in the US forum, a forum I rarely visit.

    One reason that NGC is respected is that they had a much greater presence in World (non-US) coins, especially World gold. This is now changing since PCGS now has diversified more into World coinage.

    I like the fact that NGC would also certify (entomb) this medal:

    WMmso (2).jpg WMr (2).jpg

    :eek: Oh, wait. This is not a ultra-modern US PCGS-graded whatever. I can't put it on my registry? My friends in the eleventh grade won't be impressed.

    The "so-called-experts" who insist only on PCGS stuff are possibly deluding themselves and probably don't know much about coins beyond the U.S. I hope those people have more of a life than their narrow numismatic perspective would suggest.

    Then, again, "going raw" must be the ultimate obscenity to them:

    Plautilla o.jpg Plautilla r.jpg


    Then, again, some people embrace the history and excitement that coins possess. Others can only enjoy the cold plastic, ignoring the history and people that the coins embody. I wonder which type of person would be more interesting to have a conservation with.

    guy
     
    Bart9349, May 12, 2012
    #102 + Quote Reply
  4. redwin117

    redwin117 Junior Member

    They are NOT BOTH TOP GRADERS COMPANY!.......IN MY HONEST OPINION...TOP GRADER AUTHENTICATOR IS AVAILABLE ANYTIME IN PUBLIC COIN SHOW IF SOMEONE ASK THEM TO CERTIFIED and GRADE THE COIN IN PUBLIC while the customer is WAITING. Means the customer feels RELAX that his Valuable coin will be authenticated in PUBLIC without FEARING of SWITCHING of any other coin/s. To certified the one coin it is take only less than 15 minutes.
     
    redwin117, May 12, 2012
    #103 + Quote Reply
  5. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It's really not possible for NGC or PCGS to do on site grading at every show. Not many folks fear a coin will be switched but I guess you do for some reason.
     
    ldhair, May 12, 2012
    #104 + Quote Reply
  6. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Thanks for your eleven cents!
     
    Lehigh96, May 12, 2012
    #105 + Quote Reply
  7. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    Was that supposed to be English? [​IMG]
     
    brg5658, May 12, 2012
    #106 + Quote Reply
  8. blu62vette

    blu62vette Member

    You can have fun with your pay for grade companies then.
     
    blu62vette, May 12, 2012
    #107 + Quote Reply
  9. kidkayt

    kidkayt Senior Member

    I stay away from TPGs and voted as such. I definitely avoid PCGS at all costs. They are all hype and no substance.
     
    kidkayt, May 12, 2012
    #108 + Quote Reply
  10. WoodyWW

    WoodyWW Junior Member

    I've done a total of 2 (4 coins each) submissions to PCGS. What a waste of $$. A Morgan $, that looks identical in grade to 2 CC MS64 Morgans in OGH's I own, came back as MS62. I swear, with all the Morgans I've owned, I can't see one more bag mark, or any other difference in the 3 coins other than the # on the holder.

    A beautiful $20 gold Saint, PCGS put in a "Genuine" holder, that looks identical IMO to a MS64 Saint that I bought from a dealer. There are rumors that PCGS gives a much rougher ride to "small submitters", compared to big dealers. That's supposed to be "impossible", of course.

    I own a grand total of 2 NGC slabbed coins: a 1937 Texas half MS 65, & a 1926 Sesqui gold MS62. They're both gorgeous coins IMO. Personally I think they're both under-graded......
     
    WoodyWW, May 13, 2012
    #109 + Quote Reply
  11. WingedLiberty

    WingedLiberty Well-Known Member

    I'd like to see those coins Woody, can you post them.
     
    WingedLiberty, May 13, 2012
    #110 + Quote Reply
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Woody -

    One of the problems PCGS is known for is that they can be very inconsistent at times. Those same two coins you mentioned, if resubmitted could easily grade as you expected they would. Or, they might not. You never know with them.
     
    GDJMSP, May 13, 2012
    #111 + Quote Reply
  13. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    In the late 90's, I started submitting coins to PCGS. After a few submissions I was left with what I considered under graded coins and some in body bags. My reaction was that I was in trouble and that I didn't know nearly as much about coins and grading as I thought I did. I vowed to learn as much as I could about coins and coin grading so that I nobody would take advantage of me. Knowledge is power!

    Forgive me for saying this; it seems that you are in a similar place, but your reaction is to conclude that TPG's are out to get you since you are a small submitter. You have two NGC coins which you think are under graded. You think your PCGS Morgan Dollars are under graded. And you don't understand why PCGS placed your Saint in a genuine holder. It is certainly possible that the TPG's are wrong about 1 or 2 of your coins, but your contention is that they are wrong about all of your coins. I think you would be wise to consider that your grading skills may need some improvement through continued education and that your opinion of your coins is different from the TPG's because you are viewing them through rose colored glasses. Please understand, I am not criticizing you, we all do it. When it comes to grading, ownership usually adds a point, or two.

    And while Doug was being nice by pointing out the inconsistency of PCGS, I would like to point out an indisputable fact. You think that all of your coins are under graded by 1 or more grades. Doug thinks that every TPG graded coin is over graded by 1 or more grades. You can't both be right.

    I implore you to start another thread about your GENUINE Saint. If you can, take a decent picture of the coin and ask the members of the forum if they can determine why the coin is a problem coin. On every genuine holder, there is a code that tells you what the problem is (see link below).

    PCGS NO GRADE CODES

    I think you will find it an eye opening experience about not only your grading skills, but the skills of some of the fellow Cointalk members as well. If you do decide to start the thread, please cover the no grade code when posting the photo.

    Paul
     
    Lehigh96, May 13, 2012
    #112 + Quote Reply
  14. bahabully

    bahabully Junior Member

    So be especially careful buying NGC graded colorfully toned coins (my experience is about 15% to 25% or so will be tagged Questionable Color by PCGS).


    I'd bet that if you took 100 PCGS toners and cracked them out and then resubmitted, that 15-25%, or more, would come back tagged as Questionable color too...

    btw, I voted that both are equal to me.
     
    bahabully, May 13, 2012
    #113 + Quote Reply
  15. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    Why people think PCGS is tougher on questionably toned coins is a mystery to me. Perhaps they just have more faith in PCGS, Literally!

    A bird, A plane, a Teagle? For the toned ASE fans..
     
    Lehigh96, May 15, 2012
    #114 + Quote Reply
  16. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I agree. Both of those are opinions and not necessarily substantiated by fact. The truth is probably in the middle. The top two TPG services really don't get it wrong consistently. They make mistakes, but are far from totally inaccurate or worthless. Also, some individuals (nobody being singled out) may have grading standards that differ from TPGs. That is fine, as this hobby has room for all opinions. However, when it comes to buying and selling coins, TPGs are reality, in terms of setting price,and cannot be dismissed or ignored. They are just not wrong that much--perhaps 5-10% of the time, but not consistently.
     
    Morgandude11, May 15, 2012
    #115 + Quote Reply
  17. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    crickets
     
    Lehigh96, May 16, 2012
    #116 + Quote Reply
  18. Irish2Ice

    Irish2Ice Member

    Lehigh, I can tell you why I thought PCGS was tougher on toned coins.....

    First let me preface that I have personally never sent a coin to EITHER company. I just prefer PCGS Eisenhowers to NGC because of consistancy in grading.

    NOW, I have read over and over again on this site and others where people sent coins into PCGS and received "questionable toning". They then sent the same coin to NGC, for whatever reason, and got it back graded. I've simply read it so many times that I figured there HAD to be some truth to it.
     
    Irish2Ice, May 16, 2012
    #117 + Quote Reply
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes there is some truth to it. However, I can tell you of thousands of instances where a toned coin was sent to PCGS and the coin was sent back for questionable toning. But when the exact same coin was sent in to PCGS again, it was slabbed.

    You see, PCGS is consistent alright, but they are consistent in being inconsistent ;)
     
    GDJMSP, May 16, 2012
    #118 + Quote Reply
  20. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    I guess the final decision of whose plastic is better will only come when they flip a slab pre-game at the Superbowl instead of a Coin. ;)
     
    brg5658, May 16, 2012
    #119 + Quote Reply
  21. BUncirculated

    BUncirculated Well-Known Member

    Wouldn't surprise me if that is not too far off either ;)
     
    BUncirculated, May 16, 2012
    #120 + Quote Reply
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