NGC or PCGS: The Ultimate Poll

It seems it's worse than I initially thought. You don't even collect plastic Paul, you collect Phil Arnold photographs?

 

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"Lighten up Francis"

The use of coin slob for those that hate TPG's was a play on a concurrent thread:

Coin Snob or Coin Slob

It was simply meant to mean that most people who hate TPG's tend to collect affordable raw coins. You are an ancient collector and since most ancients (including the expensive ones) are raw, it doesn't really apply to you. But lest we forget, this thread is in the US Coins Forum.

Furthermore, the TPG grade is not about "reassurance", it is about liquidity. I wouldn't expect you to care about that since self admittedly, you have never sold any of your coins, but when you do try to sell one of your high grade raw US coins, don't be surprised when you get low balled.

I really think you are taking it the wrong way. Most of those labels were designed to poke fun at the category. Certainly being called a kool-aid drinker does not cast PCGS only collectors in a positive light. But don't worry, I understand all to well the angst you are feeling for being part of a minority group within numismatics. If you think that hating TPG's draws criticism, try paying monetary premiums for toned coins.

 

Brandon, I think your photos are better.

@WingedLiberty, in my experience, NGC is a little more liberal with the application of the grade bump for exceptional eye appeal. It is tough to tell from the darkness of that photo, but if the fields are any indication, that is the case with this coin as well and you are probably right about what the PCGS grade will be.

 

This is a more lit up image showing the surfaces a bit better but losing the luster ... however note that this was shot with my iPhone that is AWFUL with detailed close-ups. Still god-bless NGC for MS67'ing this one; but I think there are just too many field flaws (look at the fields in front of Miss Liberty's nose and chin) for PCGS to MS67 this (so PCGS will probably want to MS66 this). It does have a clean cheek, but I just don't think it will be quite enough.

I take it from your post that NGC has a tendency to "bump up" the grade based on toning/color (visual appeal) in spite of the details and surfaces? Maybe that is why my NGC coins never upgrade when going from NGC to PCGS. I tend to buy coins that I consider to be visually appealing (and that might be the exact case where NGC may have bumped the grade up above where the surfaces would warrant). Maybe that is the key I've been looking for expaining why my NGC coins always cross "at grade" or lower, but never higher when crossing to PCGS. (Thanks for mentioning that point).

 

PCGS is definitely body bagging that Windged. How could you buy such a coin?

 

Not only do I believe that NGC grade bumps more for eye appeal, I also firmly believe that PCGS instructs it's graders to grade all NGC crossover submissions very conservatively. Once someone finally tells a story of a successful NGC to PCGS cross, maybe I will change my opinion. But when I hear stories of the a coin failing to cross in the holder and then getting the crossover grade after being cracked and submitted raw, forgive me for taking the cynical view towards PCGS crossovers.

Honestly, if you are willing to accept a lower grade by PCGS when crossing NGC coins, you should crack them out an submit them raw. Personally, I wouldn't cross this coin, it will do just fine in the NGC holder with a star designation.

BTW, I completely disagree with your earlier statement that PCGS is more reliable with regards to questionable toning. Some of the most egregious examples of certified AT coins reside in PCGS holders. But that is really a topic that needs it's own thread.

 

Yes, the toning issue is another whole can of worms!!!

By the way, I don't have the courage to crack out coins with a lot of value, I just feel it's too risky. There is a nearly $1000 difference in value between 66 and 67 on that Morgan. If PCGS wont 67 this (which I doubt they will), I am fine leaving in the NGC 67 STAR slab.

I have also theorized that PCGS might "punish" NGC slabbed coins, however I have had enough cross at grade, that I dont think they do a blanket punishment on all crossovers.

It's a very complicated topic for sure.

By the way, Lehigh, that "Fire and Ice" 1937 Proof Lincoln that I bought from you ... I sent to PCGS in the NGC slab for crossover, and it crossed AT GRADE. So here is an example of an NGC crossover that wasnt "punished" by PCGS (I did NOT need to crack it out of the NGC slab to keep the 65 grade). If PCGS was doing a blanket punishment of NGC coins, this would have come back as a 64. So ON AVERAGE I have found copper drops a grade, but not always. Some copper coins, like this one, do cross on NGC to PCGS crossover grading.

 

My suggestion of cracking and submitting was more for your toned proof Lincolns.

I don't think they intentionally punish NGC graded coins submitted for crossover, and I do believe that the NGC grades are hidden from the PCGS graders. I just think they are told if they think the coin is in between grades to always choose the lower grade.

 

and I don't like anyone touching my coins. If any of you guys touch my coins.......and I kill you.

I got the reference Paul, it just seemed upon reading that half the references were positive versus the "slob" reference. If they were all "Koolaid " references I wouldn't have mentioned it, is all.

 

This thread reminds me of a certain analogy...something about a monkey and a football.

 

You are correct, sir:







guy

 

I'm a fan of PCGS but I don't really care for the "new" holders.

 

I sure got my money's worth out of starting this poll :thumb:!!!
WingedLiberty - You have some of the finest coins I've ever seen. Great Taste sir!
The healthy debate really helped me see both sides, without my own suppositions.

 

Way to go, this made it to at least three coin sites. Funny thing is, all TPGs grade dogs for some reason. No TPG is immune. So please save us the zealots and infallible adjectives.

 

Zealots is a noun, not an adjective.

But, seriously, what you said was exactly my point. No TPG is perfect, and they all make mistakes. The "disease" of thinking that PCGS is infallible is just much more rampant than the NGC equivalent. Actually, I don't know anyone who has ever claimed even remotely similar lofty things from NGC that some of the regular kool-aid drinks claim for PCGS.

 

I beg to differ, but I won't drag names into this thread against their will.

 

We can not have that! Kool-aid Haters, off with their heads!

 

No need to beg. How many names do you have? 1, maybe 2? I could list at least 10 regular posters here who are unabashedly pro-PCGS to the point of almost a religious problem. Anyway, no point in beating this dead horse more. I'm not upset one bit, it simply leaves more coins for the rest of us to choose from, while others collect their "special" brand of plastic.

 

I wanna know who the one guy is who likes ANACS. I bet it is Frank.

 

Why would you be upset in the first place? It's a public forum...see my analogy post beforehand.

Like I said before...I buy my coins from all walks of life. I just like them to eventually hang out with the kool-aid.