NGC or PCGS: The Ultimate Poll

I am a koolaid drinker. If I was in a different series it may be different story

A collecting friend of mine is switching from NGC to PCGS in classic commems. He said he has seen some brutal NGC auction recently.

I have given my reasons in the past for why I stick with PCGS, it never seems to go over well so no need to explain this time.

 

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For the good of the order I insist you educate us, if not just for my sake. My preference for NGC may be totally irrational based on my own dumb luck. Respectfully I'd be listening to you without undue histrionics response. Thanks!!!

 

I will give a couple of reasons.

1. The collections I respect the most are on PCGS holders and they only buy PCGS coins. These are not weak collections, but huge collections with some of the best dollars around in them and the top pops for many coins. I asked these owners why do you only use PCGS? There answers convinced me.

2. I collect DMPL Morgans, I just feel the overall quality is much better on the PCGS coins. I am not saying NGC coins are dogs, but for my series I see better coins in the PCGS holders.

3. If I had to sell my set today I would want them in PCGS holders to get max value.

4. My profession has allowed me to meet some PCGS execs. I like and respect them. I have not met the NGC execs to compare with.

5. I believe the modified poll should have advanced collector in the first spot, just my opinion.

 

Some collectors prefer the same coin higher graded with NGC over a one with a lower PCGS grade. But if you look at exceptional examples...the finest 1909 VDB MPL, the record setting 1943-D copper Lincoln (to name just two) you have to wonder why anyone would do this. Cross a spectacular rarity in NGC plastic for a lower grade with PCGS?

A good friend, and widely regarded dealer of bust halves and early silver (Sheridan Downey), recently crossed his wonderful NGC MS61 1815/2 CBH to PCGS AU58. It sold at Central States for $34k, many $thousands over price guides. Again, why would someone do this?

Check out some of the finest registry sets at NGC. The very best. (Not talking moderns.) Isn't it odd that they're almost always all PCGS-graded? Entire sets, not just most of the coins. What do they know we don't, those with a lot more at stake than most of us.
Lance.

 

It's probably weird but if I'm collecting a series I want them all in the same type holder. My types are in NGC and my series in PCGS. That's just the way it came out. I've noticed on the Teletrade 'no buyers premium' auctions the vast majority are in NGC slabs. Not sure what that means, if anything.

 

Not odd at all. The collections you are talking about are big money collections. The owners want to compete in both registries. In order to do so, they must have every coin in PCGS plastic. In addition, with regards to top ranked registry collections, grading fees are a rather small expense compared to the total value of the collection.

 

TPG's are like a box of chocolates ... you never know what you're going to get.

 

I find that NGC coins usually grade 1 grade lower by PCGS. So NGC and PCGS grades are not equivalent. This is especially true with copper and gold.

 

Not sure i get your point about grading fees relative to the value of the collection. But as far as the registries, correct: NGC accepts PCGS coins but PCGS will not allow NGC.

I don't think the "big money collectors" are very focused on NGC registries. Not when a same graded coin between the two services often has significantly different values. My wheaties registry is #6 at NGC, e.g., but only 16th at PCGS. Many collectors don't bother with NGC registries.
Lance.

 

My point about the grading fees relative to the price of the coins/collection is that the PCGS registry collectors buy outstanding coins in NGC plastic and then cross them to PCGS because they want to include them in their PCGS registry set. When you are dealing with coins worth thousands of dollars, a $50 grading fee becomes a nominal expense which is easily absorbed.

You were the one who told us to look at the NGC registry collections and see all the top sets with all PCGS coins, remember?

All I did was point out that those sets started as PCGS registry sets and since NGC allows both NGC & PCGS coins in their registry, the PCGS kool-aid drinkers come over and add their PCGS registry sets to the NGC registry. But as you pointed out, some don't bother.

 

A few years ago I bought a PCGS box with 20 plastic-coffined coins in it. It was about half PGCS and NGC. I kept a few nice pieces and sold the rest. Since it is a PCGS box, I tend to buy only PCGS coins when I see one I want, and will stop when the box is full. I actually prefer raw mixed collections, being a gambler at heart I enjoy a good crap shoot.

 

The problem I have in general with TGP's and grading is consistency. How many "guess the grade" threads do we see here? Quite a few... and many are in MS63 and higher grades. For a coin that PCGS has graded MS65 you may see a poll with voters chosing a spread of maybe MS63 to MS67. The people posting in these polls have a vast amout of experience and I have much respect for them. Who is "right"? The TGP? The dealer with 30+ years in the business? The issue to me is that in many coins the difference between being graded MS64 and MS65 is hundreds or even thousands of dollars. So what do those of you who have a decent grasp on grading MS coins in a series do at a coin show? Lets say you see a PCGS coin slabbed in an MS65 holder but you grade it as a MS64. The FMV difference between the two is $250. Do you offer the dealer MS64 money and walk away if he refuses? Coin grading is subjective, especially in MS and Proof grades. It is hard for me to understand how a price guide can be made for a range of grades when the grades are not absolute. There will probabably never be an "absolute" grading system, but until I can grade with any accuracy and consistency, I will unfortunately be one of those who is at the mercy of what the TGP says the coin is graded.

 

With respect to the guess the grades threads, I think the problem is less related to TPG consistency and CT member grading ability than it is to the photographs. Even when the photographs are really good, many people under grade because an oversized photo exaggerates the flaws on the coin. I very rarely buy coins that are over graded and I never offer money for one grade lower, I simply move on.

 

Way too many factors to decide anything conclusively. Grading itself is subjective and it's worse as to why one is better than the other. The main factors for even having TPG's in the first place let alone trying to figure out which on is better are 1)too many people can't grade (nothing to do with skill or experience so much as laziness to learn/try. 2)too many counterfeits and dishonest people out there. Dealers, ebay, collectors, CHINA!!! etc. all barrels have bad apples in them. 3)the profitablility factor not just the TPG's or the bulk submitters but for ebay and the top pop/registry chasers too they all contribute something to the problem.
I have both; however I do have more NGC than PCGS for two reasons. I started with NGC morgan's and eagles because of the price difference. When someone is magically jacking the price up an extra $10 over the value of the coin just because it's a PCGS it makes you walk away. So now if I want uniformity they now have to continually be NGC or they look out of place. If I just want to buy any old gold piece or wheat cent I don't care which holder as long as I'm paying only what the coin is worth or less. Preferrably less..lol.

 

Sorry Lance, but a new player on the NGC wheaties registry has bumped us all by debuting in the new number 2 spot. Interestingly enough the set is only 10k points behind the running leader and is made up of an even mix of NGC and PCGS. As it should be. I don't know why an all PCGS loyalist would bother with an NGC registry either if they don't respect the company. I think of them as "crashers" but I think it's better to see how coins stack up alongside ALL possible sets created, no matter what people have assembled them with.
Matt

 

Winged, Are you sending your NGC coins to PCGS slabbed as a crossover, or do you first crack them out and submit them raw?
Matt

 

Here is another issue I have. Way to many times I have heard dealers talk about a raw coin, with a minor issue or potential AT color. In these situations I have heard send to NGC a majority of them time. That really turns me off that people feel those coins can slip through NGC.

 

Thats one side of the coin, I suspect PCGS intentionally low balls grades to be the "market leader" and makes the illusion of higher standards. Its a head shaker to me to see a flat out 65 in a 64/3 holder or bagged for a minor reason. And why not, they take no risk guarantee and get credit for being strict. Now I see NGC doing the same to apparently shirk the higher grade reputation. What I fear is a culture of company chess instead of just grading coins for what they are on their own merit.
Matt

 

I am primarily an Eisenhower (Ike) collector and as many have pointed out, the choice for PCGS vs NGC can be coin series dependent.

For me (I guess I kinda drink the coolaid) this is definitely the case. PCGS is MUCH more consistent than NGC when grading Eisenhowers. I can pick up 5-10 graded Eisenhowers of the same grade in NGC slabs and be in amazement at the difference in the coins. With PCGS, I can almost always see a justification for the grade.

I still buy NGC coins, but I scrutinize the coin much more than a PCGS coin. For my personal graded collection, I only have PCGS coins. But, for grading purposes, varieties, errors, toners, etc, I will buy NGC. I NEVER buy NGC coins for their perspective grade with the intent of flipping for a profit or selling in the future for a profit. The only time that would happen, I would crack the properly graded NGC coin out and send to PCGS.

Just my opinion and how I handle my personal collection. Take the info as you will.

 

I buy my coins raw/PCGS/NGC/ANACS/ICG....since it's all about the coins.


Then I dip them in Kool-aid.