NGC and eBay Partner on Expert Review Service

@baseball21
@Lehigh96
@Seattlite86

If you don’t think this service does any good for the hobby, then I can’t and won’t try to change your opinion.

Can we now get back on topic and be friends again?

 

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In this scenario, there are no facts. Again, it’s all best guess, which is why I shifted the burden of proof to you, because I knew you couldn’t provide it. Yet here you are still insisting that baseball provide you with facts in an arena where they don’t exist.

My bad, I didn’t go back to double check which dollar amount he used. His point is still valid. I’ve explained it several times. I will try again. He was saying that at a certain price level, which he estimated to be $1M, but can’t confirm because no stats exist, that the 95% certification rate is actually correct/close.

You don’t need to wait for him to admit that it is his opinion, as there are no established statistics in this arena for anyone to provide proof. It’s obvious that it is his opinion, and your edit about what he could have said leads me to believe that you actually agree with his overall point. So if you are done wasting everyone’s time with your nitpicking/trolling of baseball’s conversational style, perhaps you could stop highjacking this thread.

 

Argument from Ignorance. Edit: also, I never argued against anyone, you're just coming to your buddy's defense, because I disagree with him and demonstrated his inability to use facts in his own comments. I bid you good day.

 

He's not my buddy, but it is pretty easy to recognize when someone is trolling him given how often it happens on this forum.

 

I challenged something he claimed and requested facts. Where is that trolling?

Edit: It was, in fact, YOU who told me to challenge him in public, now you're chastising me for it...

 

I don't hold grudges and consider all 3 of you my Cointalk friends. And by all means, lets leave the conversation about what percent of coins are graded behind and talk about the new service by NGC.

Personally, I don't think it is good or bad, I just think it is expensive for what you get. I guess if I collected raw coins with authenticity issues on E-Bay, I would be more inclined to use the service, but typically, when buying a coin that is widely counterfeited or altered, I just by a graded example.

The only other area where this would be useful to me is when you are buying a coin that might be AU rather than MS and there is a big price difference between the two.

 

Because you know damn well that there are no statistics in the area that you are requesting facts. But if we are doing best guess based on the total coins graded vs total extant examples, everyone knows it isn't anywhere near 95%. Heck, even the guy who posted the 95% admitted he was being hyperbolic. Don't be obtuse!

 

Did you tell baseball not to be obtuse in calling out micbraun? I didn't see you chiding him for questioning his numbers, knowing there aren't any statistics, trying to refute them. Why is it okay for him to throw out random numbers and claim them as true when they're not? I might be being obtuse, but I'm also being factual, unlike baseball, who demands everyone else provide facts but doesn't follow his own line of thinking. I then used that to explain to baseball why people think he's a troll. Because he takes leeway in his own writing, failing to support his own claims with facts, but then lobs insults at others for not being factual. It was intended as a learning point, and all you've done is start another argument.

 

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LOL...

 

Baseball wasn't being obtuse, you are. Everyone knows there are no statistics to support either side, but logic and common sense would tell anyone that baseball is right. Furthermore, Micbraun IMMEDIATELY retracted his 95% number and admitted he was being hyperbolic.

And baseball didn't throw out the number, Micbraun did. All baseball did was refute the number and then parse his words by using the word "many" which then you promptly slammed him for. Baseball made a simple valid point that the 95% was wrong along with a caveat about million dollar coins because he fully expected to be trolled by someone.

Listen, we get it, you don't like him. Welcome to the club, there is a whole big group of guys that don't like him. When I encouraged you to challenge him, I expected that you would do it regarding substance, not the gotcha crap you trying right now.

How about we approach this a different way. Please pick one of the options below for a bet of $100.

A) At least 95% of all US coins are certified
B) Less than 95% of all US coins are certified

If you pick B, that means you agree with Baseball, so what the heck are you arguing about?

 

Thank you for helping drill down the point that baseball cannot definitively say that 95% of million dollar plus coins are slabbed. Thank you for also showing that baseball entered into an argument using purely his opinion, which is not, and cannot be verified through facts. These are accusations he lobs at other people. It’s a gotcha and a teaching moment for him, to help him see why he’s viewed as a troll.

 

I think this can be helpful for those collecting world coins and ancients. For US coins no...a majority are slabbed and you can find slabbed ones easily.....why take a chance on a 1907 high relief saint from a seller in China when you can easily find a slabbed one.

For ancients and world coins, many are unslabbed still.....there are collectors on IG that have rare world coins that they want unslabbed. Those coins I would want NGCs take if they ever decide to sell. I think NGC should clarify more on this service and any guarantees that should apply.

 

Great, we agree I am also inclined to buy certified coins before even looking at raw coins.

Considering that most world coins and many US coins are still raw in Europe though, it’s quite hard to find an already certified coin at a reasonable price. Note: No percentages given this time And once we talk about expensive coins, I’d pay the $5 in a heartbeat to hear what NGC thinks about it.

 

@micbraun a lot of world coins in private european collections are raw and we are talking about rare coins such as large thalers, etc. These european collectors prefer them raw. Then you get to countries in which patterns are rarely seen and still raw due to people not knowing about PCGS/NGC. For instance, for thailand which I collect, there are so many undiscovered patterns and rarities in peoples homes, etc that are not slabbed. If a pattern came up for sale, I want NGCs take first because honestly, its hard to even find a slabbed one.

 

Answer the question.

Please pick one of the options below for a bet of $100.

A) At least 95% of all US coins are certified
B) Less than 95% of all US coins are certified

In order for it to be a teaching moment, he has to be wrong. He is not.

 

We constantly give the disclaimer that you can't accurately judge a coin from a picture. On Cointalk, the pictures are generally pretty decent - there are some truly awful pictures on Ebay.

And we're not charging for the opinion! That's the key difference.

 

So who are the 'experts at ebay and why should I trust them?

 

It’s a new NGC service... and not the eBay marketing intern ;-)

 

But the way I'm reading it is, ebay is going to make a decision/determination as to whether or not a coin is worthy of being sent into the grading service .....

 

Not really. You request the service on NGCs web site providing the link to the eBay auction. NGC then reviews the coin within 52 hours. If the pictures are good enough they’ll send you an email with their opinion on authenticity/grade. If not you’ll get a refund.