NGC-Altered Surface(s)=Bodybag

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by IntenseBlue, Feb 24, 2023.

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  1. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    It's harshly cleaned, that's what they're talking about. They wouldn't bother with it if it were counterfeit.
     
    eddiespin, Feb 25, 2023
    #21 + Quote Reply
    MIGuy likes this.
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    ICG Slabs all counterfeits that fit into the slab. They have a yellow "educational label."

    You guys are not going to like or agree with this comment: IMO, that coin has NOT BEEN cleaned, buffed, polished.etc. The lack of relief is the way it was cast and the semi-smooth surface is due to a bit of rub. I did not explain this above :muted: because we are dealing with an image; but when you see that exact crystal pattern on any coin except an ancient, the coin is a cast counterfeit! I have yet to see an exception! :jawdrop: That's my statement and I'm sticking to it. ;)
     
    Insider, Feb 25, 2023
    #22 + Quote Reply
    Jack D. Young, IntenseBlue, MIGuy and 1 other person like this.
  4. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I don't know why anyone would not like the comment, Insider. Casting or counterfeiting explains the surfaces and mushiness of the image far better than any other "cleaning" or "altering" description. I haven't seen that pattern myself, but your explanation makes more sense than anything else. I'll bet you've seen more problem coins than all of us combined.

    I have absolutely no problem calling that a counterfeit, based on the crystallization I'm seeing in those images.
     
    physics-fan3.14, Feb 25, 2023
    #23 + Quote Reply
  5. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    And they just put their label on a counterfeit coin and called it "altered surfaces," yeah right.
     
    eddiespin, Feb 25, 2023
    #24 + Quote Reply
  6. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    My question as well. During this era, did "altered surfaces" mean or imply "genuine"? Did the label that came with the bodybag say "genuine" on it?
     
    KBBPLL, Feb 25, 2023
    #25 + Quote Reply
  7. BadThad

    BadThad Calibrated for Lincolns

    You wouldn't have to twist my arm to believe that. It has all the hallmarks of a Chinese fake but I don't recognize that exact die pair. Nonetheless, you can see the resemblance to known fakes - especially in the portrait.

    1909SVDBfakeB.jpg 1909s_VDB_obv.jpg
    [​IMG]
     
    BadThad, Feb 25, 2023
    #26 + Quote Reply
  8. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Jack D. Young, Feb 26, 2023
    #27 + Quote Reply
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    No, they would list whatever the problem was just like they do now on the slabs. If the problem was altered surfaces the label with the body bag said altered surfaces.

    As to how altered services is defined, you can see the list that NGC uses by following the link Jack posted above. Here's a short cut to it -

    https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/6436/

    And while PCGS uses different wording, their list is pretty much the same.

    PCGS will not grade and encapsulate any coins with the following problems:

    86 No Opinion – our experts are unable to determine a coin’s authenticity – fee refunded
    87 Not Eligible For Service Selected – the coin is too valuable for the chosen service level – fee refunded
    90 Questionable Authenticity – the coin is most likely a counterfeit.
    91|N-1 Questionable/Artificial Toning (or Questionable Color for copper)
    92|N-2 Cleaned – surface damage due to a harsh, abrasive cleaning
    93|N-3 Planchet Flaw - Metal impurity or defect in the planchet – depends on severity
    94|N-4 Altered Surface - Whizzed, harsh cleaning, thumbed over (using a pasty substance to cover defects or alter the appearance).
    95|N-5 Scratch - depends on the severity of the scratch
    96|N-6 No Service – coins we do not certify (i.e. medals, some privately made issues, etc.) or cannot certify (i.e. over-sized coins)
    97|N-7 Environmental Damage – i.e. corrosion, coating (lacquer), excessively heavy toning, etc.
    98|N-8 Damage – deliberate surface damage, i.e. graffiti, spot(s) removed, etc. – depends on severity
    99|N-9 PVC (Poly-Vinyl-Chloride) – a plasticizer used to produce vinyl that will leach out of the holder and onto the coin, eventually damaging the surfaces.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2023
    GDJMSP, Feb 26, 2023
    #28 + Quote Reply
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