Newp: Ptolemaic dinner plate

I have a soft spot for Ptolemaics, probably because a Ptolemaic AE was my first Greek coin and my only one for quite a while, so this massive ancient that came in today is a pickup that I'm already extremely fond of and couldn't wait to share. I purchased this from a good friend who allowed me to pick the one I liked most from 3 that he recently purchased. I'm actually using his pictures and some cell phone pictures of mine below because I was having trouble with my camera. This is by far my biggest ancient and a type that I've wanted to pick up for quite some time. This massive thing is 65 grams, 39mm in diameter and 8mm thick!



Ptolemaic Kingdom. Ptolemy IV Philopator. 222-205/4 BC. Æ Drachm (39mm, 65g, 8mm thick). Alexandria mint. Series 5. Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right /ΠΤΟΛΣΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΣΩΣ Eagle with closed wings standing left on thunderbolt; to left, filleted cornucopia; Σ control mark between legs. Svoronos 992; Weiser 61 (Ptolemy III); SNG Copenhagen 205-6; Noeske 147-9. Note: Svoronos attributes to Ptolemy III

Now of course, my post wouldn't be complete without a family picture with my two smallest Ptolemies for comparison:



And some individual shots with the sizes:


Ptolemy III, Euergetes, 246-222 BC AE Trihemichalkon(15mm, 2.9g). Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right/ΠΤΟΛΣΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΣΩΣ Eagle standing left on thunderbolt, trident left. Ex. J. P. Righetti Collection #42. Svoronos 839




Ptolemy III, Euergetes, 246-222 BC AE Chalkous(12.0mm, 2.0g). Diademed head of Zeus-Ammon right/ΠΤΟΛΣΜΑΙΟΥ ΒΑΣΙΛΣΩΣ Eagle standing left on thunderbolt, trident left. Ex. J. P. Righetti Collection #43. Svoronos 840

Anyone else got any huge Ptolemies or tiny Ptolemies? Lets seem em! I wonder if anyone has one smaller than my Svoronos 840

 

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I love the 8mm thick one!

 

That coin is truly remarkable. 8 mm thick! You can show that to a non-collector and they will certainly be impressed. I'm impressed!

 

Wow, that one fat Ptolemy! I'm quite jealous.

It's a great night for the Ptolemy's! I just posted my three...but I'm going to do it again anyway.

My newest, not in hand yet, but it's a Ptolemy IV, Svoronos 1128:

Below is my second Ptolemaic purchase:
Ptolemy III BC 246-222
AE 38.6mm, 41.6g, Alexandria mint
Bust of Zeus-Amon right
Eagle standing half left on fulmen, wings closed, head right, filleted cornucopia right ascending from behind shoulder, E between legs
Svoronous 974
(my computer won't do Greek, otherwise I would include the legend)


And my first purchase which is to date my largest:
Ptolemy IV, BC 221-204
AE 41mm, 64g, Alexandria mint
Bust of Zeus-Ammon right
Eagle standing left on thunderbolt; cornucopia tied with fillet before, DELTA IOTA between legs
Svoronos 1125



I want to add some little ones.

 

That's an incredible chunk of change, red. Well-chosen!

 

Red - I really love your little Ptolemies (spelling?) too!

 

Don't own any but wow that thing is huge, never seen the thickness in pics before.

 

On most of what I have, the thickness of the coin can be ignored but this was just too huge not to share. It really gives a sense of how massive this thing is

 

holy crap that is awesome...8 mm thick! and it's a lovely coin as well.

don't drop it on your toes!

 

I accidentally dropped it earlier putting it into a flip(not an easy task). Luckily it didn't damage it but the huge thud sent the cat running for his life.

 

Beautiful , may I ask it's metal content ?

 

@rzage Bronze. These coins are something else...like a rock. Well...red_spork's is anyway.

 

Wow, the thick one is fascinating!

How could such an anomaly have occurred? All other Ptolemy bronzes I've seen have an angled edge (obverse smaller in diameter than reverse). Presumably the flans were cast that way, maybe in an open-faced clay mold. So... how did this one coin end up so thick and without the usual edge shape?

 

Is that a seam around the edge?

 

I ALWAYS REALLY HATE to do this but I find the OP coin questionable on several grounds. I would send that one to David Sear to get his opinion as to its authenticity.

 

*yikes* ... TIF did kinda shine a light on an awkward detail, eh? (perhaps it should be sent to Sear's California ranch for a 2nd peek?)

... ro, I sure hope it proves to be a winner (it is an amazing specimen!!)

 

I don't think it's actually a seam but a remnant of the lathe process used to machine these flans, see http://www.classicalcoins.com/flans1.html . There are also some marks on the reverse from the machining of the flan. The edge is definitely angled, just not nearly as dramatic as some I've seen.

 

Unfortunately, I have other awkward questions to add.

The Ptolemaics were quite specific about bronze weights, much more so than other cultures. The drachm-weight bronzes in Alexandria Series 5 come in at 68 grams, 42mm diameter. Variance is quite small. 65 grams is too light, and 39mm is too small for a drachm, and too large for the next lowest denomination, which comes in around 45g.

As far as what appears to be a seam, Ptolemaic bronzes can naturally exhibit this feature, due to lathe-machining of the flans. But on examples where this feature is seen, the edges are always beveled, striated, and uneven, again due to the nature of the technology...



Also, I find the style of the eagle quite crude, and out of line with Alexandria emissions, but the coin has been tooled, so perhaps the tooling has altered the original style.

I would post this at FORVM, where you will find a handful of experts in Ptolemaic coinage. I am not one of them, and I hope I'm wrong.

 

The owner of the website PtolemyBronze frequents Forvm. He is a very approachable guy. Perhaps you could email the site and ask for an opinion.