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<p>[QUOTE="AnYangMan, post: 2941642, member: 87271"]I have to agree with [USER=78244]@TypeCoin971793[/USER] on this one I am afraid: Its looks are decent-ish, but it is a fake nonetheless. It imitates an incredibly rare<i> Zhu Zhong Yi Liang Shi Er </i>(珠重一两十二) from the state of Qin, dating from the same period as the coin in the beginning of the topic. The patina on your coin is better than on the usual fakes and the way the dirt encrustations are placed around the edge make it look like a genuine hoard find. The patina on the reverse is slightly less convincing, but would still fool anyone at first glance. Also note how the hole is not perfectly round. Perfectly round, machine made, holes used to be a tell-tale sign of fakes, but apparently the fakers have become so much more sophisticated nowadays. The calligraphy is a little off however, especially on <i>Liang </i>and <i>zhu; </i>the strokes are usually much ‘rounder’ than the squarish/blockish ones we see here. These <i>Zhu Zhong</i> round coins are generally weaker cast than other contemporary round coins, but are in quite high relief in comparison. I am not a professional authenticator, so take my opinion with a slight grain of salt, but I am rather confident it is not genuine. Sorry!</p><p><br /></p><p>For some reason I already thought I already replied to your lovely replies! Oops ….. apparently I didn’t. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie87" alt=":sorry:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> So sorry guys! Ah well, better late than never.</p><p><br /></p><p>First of all: wow, a featured article! Thanks guys, some beautiful coins right here!</p><p><br /></p><p>Some lovely coins [USER=51347]@Alegandron[/USER], I especially love those Anyang spades (but then again, there is a reason I am named <b>AnYang</b>Man here on the forum). Love the calligraphic variety on that Yuan coin of yours, [USER=81887]@Parthicus[/USER]! Very narrow strokes, with relatively small ‘squares’ (pardon my non-linguistic terminology) on the end. Interesting to see the location of the position of the casting sprue; precisely opposite to where it is located on my specimens!</p><p><br /></p><p>The (continental-)ONS meeting is indeed held in Leiden every year. The ONS is quite a large international, and this year we had no less than 36 members participating in the meeting! (for an oriental numismatic society meeting in the Netherlands, I’d say 36 isn’t too shabby). Members from all around the globe are present, and we cover the entirety of the diverse field of Oriental numismatics; from Russian Zmeevik amulets, central Asian and Indian coins, all the way to Chinese cash, and everything in between!</p><p><br /></p><p>[USER=84744]@Severus Alexander[/USER], wow, that is quite the Yi Hua you’ve shown! You’ve gotten the rarest of this interesting series first. I used to own the value six version, Yi Liu Hua, but seeing as it had no rims (!) and a strangely uniform patina, it was doubtful at best. Your coins looks more than good to me, note the slightly raised rim. I could go on for a while explaining the extremely interesting yet complex discussion concerning the reading of the characters on this coin, but let’s leave that for another topic <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />.</p><p><br /></p><p>Whether they truly are the first round coins with square holes, remains up for debate. While the approximate date for this series of <i>Qi</i>-round coins has been established relatively firmly (late 4th century right until the final downfall of <i>Qi</i>), it all depends on how you date and attribute the <i>Qin</i> Ban Liangs. Initially, scholars dated all of them to the Qin and Han dynasties, but this has been proven wrong by archaeology. <i>Qin</i> tombs from the Warring states period have yielded many Ban Liangs, often humongous in size (these were most likely funerary coins). We can now prove that production of the Ban Liang started much and much earlier, possibly as far back as 378 BC. That would make these Ban Liangs the oldest square-hole ‘washers’.</p><p><br /></p><p>I love all the blue on your specimen, [USER=75799]@Loong Siew[/USER]! Kind of similar to mine, but slightly darker shade of blue on the obverse. Awesome!</p><p><br /></p><p>Now, where have I seen these coins before, [USER=78244]@TypeCoin971793[/USER]? I am still a little jealous of that <i>Xiangyuan</i> spade, with its slightly rare calligraphy and an unlisted reveres character! But alas, we divided the lots fair and square. Your <i>Yuan</i> round coin was the original trigger for me to start actively looking for an example of my own. And now I have two <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie2" alt=";)" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" />. The imprint on the reverse makes it even cooler, let alone the beautiful red areas of (transfer) patina!</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Yes, that is indeed a valid question. To be honest, I am not sure we know the answer, but it would seem logical. After all, most cities with <i>Wang </i> in their name have something to do with royalty. W<i>angcheng</i>, etc. But in this case the question would be: which royalty? A reference to the city of <i>Wangyuan </i>is given before the marquis of the state of <i>Wei</i> elevated himself to ‘king’ (<i>Wang) </i>in 344<i>. </i>Assuming that the <i>Wang </i>part of the name was indeed part of the contemporary name and not just a later addition by historiographers, one would assume that it can’t refer to the <i>Wei </i>royal lineage. The most logical option would be that <i>Wang </i>refers to the <i>Zhou </i>kings. But their history is documented in the fullest detail, without a single mention of this city. The city was apparently known as a residential site for <i>Shang</i>-dynasty elites, for ‘getting away from the busy capital’. But this was under a different name, centuries before its name was changed to <i>Wangyuan. </i>I am not sure to be honest, and I am not sure anyone knows….</p><p><br /></p><p>Mika[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="AnYangMan, post: 2941642, member: 87271"]I have to agree with [USER=78244]@TypeCoin971793[/USER] on this one I am afraid: Its looks are decent-ish, but it is a fake nonetheless. It imitates an incredibly rare[I] Zhu Zhong Yi Liang Shi Er [/I](珠重一两十二) from the state of Qin, dating from the same period as the coin in the beginning of the topic. The patina on your coin is better than on the usual fakes and the way the dirt encrustations are placed around the edge make it look like a genuine hoard find. The patina on the reverse is slightly less convincing, but would still fool anyone at first glance. Also note how the hole is not perfectly round. Perfectly round, machine made, holes used to be a tell-tale sign of fakes, but apparently the fakers have become so much more sophisticated nowadays. The calligraphy is a little off however, especially on [I]Liang [/I]and [I]zhu; [/I]the strokes are usually much ‘rounder’ than the squarish/blockish ones we see here. These [I]Zhu Zhong[/I] round coins are generally weaker cast than other contemporary round coins, but are in quite high relief in comparison. I am not a professional authenticator, so take my opinion with a slight grain of salt, but I am rather confident it is not genuine. Sorry! For some reason I already thought I already replied to your lovely replies! Oops ….. apparently I didn’t. :sorry: So sorry guys! Ah well, better late than never. First of all: wow, a featured article! Thanks guys, some beautiful coins right here! Some lovely coins [USER=51347]@Alegandron[/USER], I especially love those Anyang spades (but then again, there is a reason I am named [B]AnYang[/B]Man here on the forum). Love the calligraphic variety on that Yuan coin of yours, [USER=81887]@Parthicus[/USER]! Very narrow strokes, with relatively small ‘squares’ (pardon my non-linguistic terminology) on the end. Interesting to see the location of the position of the casting sprue; precisely opposite to where it is located on my specimens! The (continental-)ONS meeting is indeed held in Leiden every year. The ONS is quite a large international, and this year we had no less than 36 members participating in the meeting! (for an oriental numismatic society meeting in the Netherlands, I’d say 36 isn’t too shabby). Members from all around the globe are present, and we cover the entirety of the diverse field of Oriental numismatics; from Russian Zmeevik amulets, central Asian and Indian coins, all the way to Chinese cash, and everything in between! [USER=84744]@Severus Alexander[/USER], wow, that is quite the Yi Hua you’ve shown! You’ve gotten the rarest of this interesting series first. I used to own the value six version, Yi Liu Hua, but seeing as it had no rims (!) and a strangely uniform patina, it was doubtful at best. Your coins looks more than good to me, note the slightly raised rim. I could go on for a while explaining the extremely interesting yet complex discussion concerning the reading of the characters on this coin, but let’s leave that for another topic ;). Whether they truly are the first round coins with square holes, remains up for debate. While the approximate date for this series of [I]Qi[/I]-round coins has been established relatively firmly (late 4th century right until the final downfall of [I]Qi[/I]), it all depends on how you date and attribute the [I]Qin[/I] Ban Liangs. Initially, scholars dated all of them to the Qin and Han dynasties, but this has been proven wrong by archaeology. [I]Qin[/I] tombs from the Warring states period have yielded many Ban Liangs, often humongous in size (these were most likely funerary coins). We can now prove that production of the Ban Liang started much and much earlier, possibly as far back as 378 BC. That would make these Ban Liangs the oldest square-hole ‘washers’. I love all the blue on your specimen, [USER=75799]@Loong Siew[/USER]! Kind of similar to mine, but slightly darker shade of blue on the obverse. Awesome! Now, where have I seen these coins before, [USER=78244]@TypeCoin971793[/USER]? I am still a little jealous of that [I]Xiangyuan[/I] spade, with its slightly rare calligraphy and an unlisted reveres character! But alas, we divided the lots fair and square. Your [I]Yuan[/I] round coin was the original trigger for me to start actively looking for an example of my own. And now I have two ;). The imprint on the reverse makes it even cooler, let alone the beautiful red areas of (transfer) patina! Yes, that is indeed a valid question. To be honest, I am not sure we know the answer, but it would seem logical. After all, most cities with [I]Wang [/I] in their name have something to do with royalty. W[I]angcheng[/I], etc. But in this case the question would be: which royalty? A reference to the city of [I]Wangyuan [/I]is given before the marquis of the state of [I]Wei[/I] elevated himself to ‘king’ ([I]Wang) [/I]in 344[I]. [/I]Assuming that the [I]Wang [/I]part of the name was indeed part of the contemporary name and not just a later addition by historiographers, one would assume that it can’t refer to the [I]Wei [/I]royal lineage. The most logical option would be that [I]Wang [/I]refers to the [I]Zhou [/I]kings. But their history is documented in the fullest detail, without a single mention of this city. The city was apparently known as a residential site for [I]Shang[/I]-dynasty elites, for ‘getting away from the busy capital’. But this was under a different name, centuries before its name was changed to [I]Wangyuan. [/I]I am not sure to be honest, and I am not sure anyone knows…. Mika[/QUOTE]
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