New Style Owl

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Alfonso Hernandez, Apr 18, 2024.

  1. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    Ok coin detectives, your mission if you choose to accept it ;)
    I have this didrachm that's 21mm 8.48 g
    I can't find the exact match in wildwinds. It has beautiful Athena Parthenos, Asklepios and Demetrios as one of the magistrates. Help!
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  3. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Last edited: Apr 19, 2024
  4. RichardT

    RichardT Well-Known Member

    You have linked to a tetradrachm. The OP states his coin is a didrachm, and the weight would be that of a didrachm.

    New Style tetradrachms, drachms and hemidrachms are all known, but not a New Style didrachm. It seems the OP's coin is either a previously unknown denomination or a fake.
    cmezner and Nicholas Molinari like this.
  5. The Meat man

    The Meat man Well-Known Member

    I don't like the way the dotted border on the obverse suddenly stops like that, for no discernable reason. Often this can be a sign that the coin is a forgery, based on a different coin that happened to have an off-center strike.
    Additionally, as others have observed, this type should be a tetradrachm, not a didrachm.
    Judging by the past several coins the OP has posted here, I strongly suspect this one is a fake.
  6. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Alarm bells ringing!
    Broucheion likes this.
  7. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    This is coin is from a dozen Greek coins that I got from a man from Afghanistan. So, I presume they are Greek Bactrian. In another forum, an American soldier said that while in Afghanistan, they could buy ancient coins there for $20. I have read that some Greek Bactrian coins have different standard than the Attica, and other Greek; they have their own variety of the Owl. CNG has a video on this.

    I started collecting American silver coins over 20 years ago, mostly Morgan, Walking Liberty etc. which I buy from other collectors, and at coin shows. I have a couple of hundred.

    A few years ago, a friend that collects Roman Imperial got me interested in Ancients. Most of my ancients I got from him but some from CNG, Savoca and Roma, and a few from eBay.

    I do not trade in fake coins; in fact, I have not sold ANY coins in my collection ever. And yes I have been burned a few times.
  8. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

  9. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    I agree—looks like a fake die was made from an authentic specimen.
    Broucheion likes this.
  10. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    What are you implying here?
    "Judging by the past several coins the OP has posted here, I strongly suspect this one is a fake"
  11. The Meat man

    The Meat man Well-Known Member

    Nearly every ancient coin I've seen you post here has been a fake, so it's not unreasonable to suppose that this one, which already has several red flags, is also a fake.

    Especially given your source - tourist fakes abound in places like Afghanistan, and nobody is selling genuine Greek silver like that for $20.

    I'm not accusing you of dishonesty or anything, if that's what you're thinking.
    Broucheion likes this.
  12. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    You misunderstood my post. I said I got it from a native of Afghanistan, not in Afghanistan.
    In the other comment I was quoting a soldier.
  13. GarrettB

    GarrettB Active Member

    Hi Alfonso. No one is questioning you here. It's the sources we are questioning. I imagine most people have been burned and it's frustrating to see it happen to others. I bought a somewhat suspicious vespasian on Ebay when I first started buying ancients. I won't go on Ebay now, though there are obviously some good sellers there.

    I would suggest you stick with vcoins or reputable auction houses because someone has been selling you obvious fakes (including, I suspect, your avatar coin). Some of the coins you have shared seem to have been faked in the same way and perhaps came from the same source (same odd colour and style). Maybe they came from the same lot? I'd say stay away from foreign sellers (Thailand, Morocco etc). Keep asking the experts here for advice. I know I will continue to do so as I'm a novice by their standards. Also, no need to be defensive. Everyone here supports novice and expert collectors alike.

    Again, I'm not questioning you in anyway mate. Just hate to see people lose money on fakes.
    The Meat man likes this.
  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I don't know of any new style didrachms. None are listed in Thompson, so I'm inclined to say that the OP coin is a fake. An edge shot would be helpful.
  15. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    Thank you for your comments. Yes, I am a newbie.
    I appreciate everyone that gives honest, constructive, informative feedback.
    What I resent are gratuitous thinly disguised put downs or offense comments.
    Kentucky likes this.
  16. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    However, many people are blunt or try to be funny.
    Alfonso Hernandez likes this.
  17. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    My apologies for my reply. Completely missed that the OP says "a didrachm".

    Could it be perhaps a fourree as it seems to have some silvering?
  18. Alfonso Hernandez

    Alfonso Hernandez ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΑΛΦΩΝΣΟΥ

    So ok, it's a copy.
    A copy of what? A Tetradrachm would be too big. A Drachm would be too small. Please enlighten me.
  19. The Meat man

    The Meat man Well-Known Member

    The die looks to have been about the size of a drachm. Note how much wider the flan is than the actual strike.

    You could always send it in to NGC for evaluation, just to be sure. Unless @Barry Murphy can give an opinion here.
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  20. JoshuaP

    JoshuaP Well-Known Member

    My dad took two tours to Afghanistan while in active duty. He told me that Afghanis were allowed to come onto the base to sell wares. They offered a host of American silver dollars, Chinese silver, and other "ancient" relics. All were fake. I am not saying your coin is a fake, but the source is sketchy. The coin shop owner near Fort Campbell in Kentucky that I liked going to as a teen told me that soldiers were constantly coming back from their tours loaded with fake coins (unrealizing), hoping to sell them, thinking they made it big.
    Alfonso Hernandez likes this.
  21. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    I mean the die was possibly made directly from from a real coin. You could then use the die from the real coin to strike another coin in a different denomination. Sometimes the original coin was missing something (like the rest of the dotted border was off flan) and that absence is clear on the struck fake coin. That may be what happened here.
    Alfonso Hernandez likes this.
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