Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
New Gallienus Panther
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 8163705, member: 110350"]Fascinating. The relationship between Roman cameos and coins isn't recognized enough by most coin collectors, I think. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy browsing websites of dealers that sell both, like Odysseus Numismatique in France.</p><p><br /></p><p>The panther (arguably a leopard given the frequent presence of spots, as I've repeatedly suggested here!) with thyrsus is, of course, traditionally associated with Bacchus/Liber/Dionysus. The thyrsos is defined at NumisWiki as follows: "The thyrsos (thyrsus) is the staff carried by Dionysus (Bacchus) and his associates; topped by a pine cone or a bunch of ivy leaves and wreathed with tendrils of vine or ivy. It was a symbol of the immortality of his believers." See <a href="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Thyrsus" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Thyrsus" rel="nofollow">https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Thyrsus</a>.</p><p><br /></p><p>Here are a couple of examples from my own collection:</p><p><br /></p><p>Lydia, Philadelphia, AE 17, Late 2nd/Early 1st Centuries BCE, Hermippos, son of Hermogenes, archiereus [magistrate]. Obv. Head of young Dionysos right, wearing ivy-wreath and band across forehead, [Φ]ΙΛΑΔΕΛΦΕ[ΩΝ] vertically behind / Rev. Spotted pantheress [leopard] walking left, with head turned back to right, cradling <b>thyrsos bound with fillet (ribbon)</b> against left shoulder, right foreleg raised; ΑΡΧΙΕΡ-ΕΥΣ above, ΕΡΜΙΠΠΟΣ in exergue. Seaby II 4720 [Sear, D., <i>Greek Coins and their Values, Vol. II, Asia & Africa</i> (Seaby 1979), at p. 430 (ill.)]; BMC 22 Lydia 16 [Head, B.V. <i>A Catalogue of Greek Coins in the British Museum, Lydia</i> (London 1901) at p. 189]; SNG Von Aulock II 3057 [<i>Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Deutschland, Sammlung Hans Von Aulock, Vol. 2: Caria, Lydia, Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia</i> (Berlin 1962)]; SNG Copenhagen 340 [<i>Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Copenhagen, The Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, Danish National Museum, Part 27, Lydia Part 1</i> (Copenhagen 1947)]; Imhoof-Blumer 8 [Imhoof-Blumer, Friedrich, <i>Lydische Stadtmünzen, neue Untersuchungen</i> (Leipzig 1897) at pp. 114-115]; Mionnet IV No. 536 [Mionnet, Théodore E., <i>Description de Médailles antiques grecques et romaines, Vol. IV, Lydie</i> (Paris 1809) at p. 98]. 17 mm., 5.02 g. [With old collector’s envelope.] [Footnote omitted.]</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/lydia-philadelphia-ae-17-dionysos-panther-jpg.1358396/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Roman Republic, C. Vibius Varus, AR Denarius, 42 BCE, Rome Mint. Obv. Head of Bacchus (or Liber)* right, wearing earring and wreath of ivy and grapes / Rev. Spotted panther [leopard]** springing left towards garlanded altar on top of which lies a bearded mask of Silenus or Pan,*** and against which leans a thyrsus with fillet (ribbon); C • VIBIVS in exergue, VARVS upwards to right. Crawford 494/36, RSC I Vibia 24, Sydenahm 1138, BMCRR 4295, Sear RCV I 496. 17 mm., 3.60 g. <i>Ex. Numismatica Ars Classica NAC AG, Auction 83, May 20, 2015, Lot 83; ex. Frank Sternberg Auction 17, Zurich, May 1986, Lot 519.</i></p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/vibius-varus-bacchus-panther-nac-2015-photo-jpg-image-jpg.1206089/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>*The identification of the obverse head as Bacchus or Liber is essentially immaterial. See Jones, John Melville, <i>A Dictionary of Ancient Roman Coins</i> (Seaby, London, 1990) at p. 33 (entry for “Bacchus”): “For the Romans . . . . [Bacchus] was generally identified with the Italian deity Liber, whose name is probably derived from the same root as the word ‘libation,’ suggesting that in Italy he was an earth or vegetation spirit who could be worshipped by pouring offerings upon the ground. . . . Bacchus appears rarely upon Roman imperial coins (and when he is given a name, he is called Liber). He is shown as a youthful male figure, nude or partly draped, perhaps with a wreath of ivy leaves. He may bear a thyrsus and be accompanied by Ariadne, a bacchant or maenad, or a panther.”</p><p><br /></p><p>** A strong argument can be made that the big cats generally referred to as “panthers” in ancient coin reference works are actually leopards (or, occasionally, cheetahs), particularly when their spots are visible, as on this coin. There is, of course no such separate species as a panther; even a black panther is simply a melanistic leopard (or, in the Western Hemisphere, a jaguar or cougar) with black fur obscuring the spots in the case of the jaguar. The classical world was well aware that <i>pantherae </i>usually had spots. See the many ancient mosaics and other works of art depicting Dionysos/Bacchus with a spotted panther/leopard, such as this mosaic from the House of the Masks in Delos, from ca. 100 BCE, in the Archaeological Museum of Delos:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/dionysos-riding-panther-delos-house-of-masks-jpg.1206090/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>See <a href="https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/441423200974714028/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/441423200974714028/" rel="nofollow">https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/441423200974714028/</a>; <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaics_of_Delos#House_of_the_Masks" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaics_of_Delos#House_of_the_Masks" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaics_of_Delos#House_of_the_Masks</a>. See also the following passage from Pliny the Elder’s <i>Natural History</i> at 8.23, concerning the spots on the <i>panthera</i>:</p><p><br /></p><p><a href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D8%3Achapter%3D23" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D8%3Achapter%3D23" rel="nofollow">http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=8:chapter=23</a></p><p><br /></p><p>“The spots of the panther are like small eyes, upon a white ground. It is said that all quadrupeds are attracted in a most wonderful manner by their odour, while they are terrified by the fierceness of their aspect; for which reason the creature conceals its head, and then seizes upon the animals that are attracted to it by the sweetness of the odour. It is said by some, that the panther has, on the shoulder, a spot which bears the form of the moon; and that, like it, it regularly increases to full, and then diminishes to a crescent. At present, we apply the general names of <i>varia</i> and <i>pardus</i> (which last belongs to the males), to all the numerous species of this animal, which is very common in Africa and Syria.” (Footnotes omitted.)</p><p><br /></p><p>For a detailed discussion of this passage in Pliny, and the terms <i>panthera </i>and <i>pardus</i> in general as used in the classical world, see the dissertation by Benjamin Moser of the University of Western Ontario, entitled <i>The Ethnozoological Tradition: Identifying Exotic Animals in Pliny's Natural History</i> (available at <a href="https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2566&context=etd" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2566&context=etd" rel="nofollow">https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2566&context=etd</a>), Chapter 3.1 at pp. 86-96, “Identifcation of the <i>Panthera</i> and <i>Pardus</i>.” [Remainder of second footnote, and all of third footnote, omitted.][/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="DonnaML, post: 8163705, member: 110350"]Fascinating. The relationship between Roman cameos and coins isn't recognized enough by most coin collectors, I think. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy browsing websites of dealers that sell both, like Odysseus Numismatique in France. The panther (arguably a leopard given the frequent presence of spots, as I've repeatedly suggested here!) with thyrsus is, of course, traditionally associated with Bacchus/Liber/Dionysus. The thyrsos is defined at NumisWiki as follows: "The thyrsos (thyrsus) is the staff carried by Dionysus (Bacchus) and his associates; topped by a pine cone or a bunch of ivy leaves and wreathed with tendrils of vine or ivy. It was a symbol of the immortality of his believers." See [URL]https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Thyrsus[/URL]. Here are a couple of examples from my own collection: Lydia, Philadelphia, AE 17, Late 2nd/Early 1st Centuries BCE, Hermippos, son of Hermogenes, archiereus [magistrate]. Obv. Head of young Dionysos right, wearing ivy-wreath and band across forehead, [Φ]ΙΛΑΔΕΛΦΕ[ΩΝ] vertically behind / Rev. Spotted pantheress [leopard] walking left, with head turned back to right, cradling [B]thyrsos bound with fillet (ribbon)[/B] against left shoulder, right foreleg raised; ΑΡΧΙΕΡ-ΕΥΣ above, ΕΡΜΙΠΠΟΣ in exergue. Seaby II 4720 [Sear, D., [I]Greek Coins and their Values, Vol. II, Asia & Africa[/I] (Seaby 1979), at p. 430 (ill.)]; BMC 22 Lydia 16 [Head, B.V. [I]A Catalogue of Greek Coins in the British Museum, Lydia[/I] (London 1901) at p. 189]; SNG Von Aulock II 3057 [[I]Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Deutschland, Sammlung Hans Von Aulock, Vol. 2: Caria, Lydia, Phrygia, Lycia, Pamphylia[/I] (Berlin 1962)]; SNG Copenhagen 340 [[I]Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum, Copenhagen, The Royal Collection of Coins and Medals, Danish National Museum, Part 27, Lydia Part 1[/I] (Copenhagen 1947)]; Imhoof-Blumer 8 [Imhoof-Blumer, Friedrich, [I]Lydische Stadtmünzen, neue Untersuchungen[/I] (Leipzig 1897) at pp. 114-115]; Mionnet IV No. 536 [Mionnet, Théodore E., [I]Description de Médailles antiques grecques et romaines, Vol. IV, Lydie[/I] (Paris 1809) at p. 98]. 17 mm., 5.02 g. [With old collector’s envelope.] [Footnote omitted.] [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/lydia-philadelphia-ae-17-dionysos-panther-jpg.1358396/[/IMG] Roman Republic, C. Vibius Varus, AR Denarius, 42 BCE, Rome Mint. Obv. Head of Bacchus (or Liber)* right, wearing earring and wreath of ivy and grapes / Rev. Spotted panther [leopard]** springing left towards garlanded altar on top of which lies a bearded mask of Silenus or Pan,*** and against which leans a thyrsus with fillet (ribbon); C • VIBIVS in exergue, VARVS upwards to right. Crawford 494/36, RSC I Vibia 24, Sydenahm 1138, BMCRR 4295, Sear RCV I 496. 17 mm., 3.60 g. [I]Ex. Numismatica Ars Classica NAC AG, Auction 83, May 20, 2015, Lot 83; ex. Frank Sternberg Auction 17, Zurich, May 1986, Lot 519.[/I] [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/vibius-varus-bacchus-panther-nac-2015-photo-jpg-image-jpg.1206089/[/IMG] *The identification of the obverse head as Bacchus or Liber is essentially immaterial. See Jones, John Melville, [I]A Dictionary of Ancient Roman Coins[/I] (Seaby, London, 1990) at p. 33 (entry for “Bacchus”): “For the Romans . . . . [Bacchus] was generally identified with the Italian deity Liber, whose name is probably derived from the same root as the word ‘libation,’ suggesting that in Italy he was an earth or vegetation spirit who could be worshipped by pouring offerings upon the ground. . . . Bacchus appears rarely upon Roman imperial coins (and when he is given a name, he is called Liber). He is shown as a youthful male figure, nude or partly draped, perhaps with a wreath of ivy leaves. He may bear a thyrsus and be accompanied by Ariadne, a bacchant or maenad, or a panther.” ** A strong argument can be made that the big cats generally referred to as “panthers” in ancient coin reference works are actually leopards (or, occasionally, cheetahs), particularly when their spots are visible, as on this coin. There is, of course no such separate species as a panther; even a black panther is simply a melanistic leopard (or, in the Western Hemisphere, a jaguar or cougar) with black fur obscuring the spots in the case of the jaguar. The classical world was well aware that [I]pantherae [/I]usually had spots. See the many ancient mosaics and other works of art depicting Dionysos/Bacchus with a spotted panther/leopard, such as this mosaic from the House of the Masks in Delos, from ca. 100 BCE, in the Archaeological Museum of Delos: [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/dionysos-riding-panther-delos-house-of-masks-jpg.1206090/[/IMG] See [URL]https://www.pinterest.dk/pin/441423200974714028/[/URL]; [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosaics_of_Delos#House_of_the_Masks[/URL]. See also the following passage from Pliny the Elder’s [I]Natural History[/I] at 8.23, concerning the spots on the [I]panthera[/I]: [URL='http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.02.0137%3Abook%3D8%3Achapter%3D23']http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=8:chapter=23[/URL] “The spots of the panther are like small eyes, upon a white ground. It is said that all quadrupeds are attracted in a most wonderful manner by their odour, while they are terrified by the fierceness of their aspect; for which reason the creature conceals its head, and then seizes upon the animals that are attracted to it by the sweetness of the odour. It is said by some, that the panther has, on the shoulder, a spot which bears the form of the moon; and that, like it, it regularly increases to full, and then diminishes to a crescent. At present, we apply the general names of [I]varia[/I] and [I]pardus[/I] (which last belongs to the males), to all the numerous species of this animal, which is very common in Africa and Syria.” (Footnotes omitted.) For a detailed discussion of this passage in Pliny, and the terms [I]panthera [/I]and [I]pardus[/I] in general as used in the classical world, see the dissertation by Benjamin Moser of the University of Western Ontario, entitled [I]The Ethnozoological Tradition: Identifying Exotic Animals in Pliny's Natural History[/I] (available at [URL]https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2566&context=etd[/URL]), Chapter 3.1 at pp. 86-96, “Identifcation of the [I]Panthera[/I] and [I]Pardus[/I].” [Remainder of second footnote, and all of third footnote, omitted.][/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
Ancient Coins
>
New Gallienus Panther
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...
