New Daniel Carr Morgan Dollar

I tried to find the thread, but failed. It was an epicly bad rich guy maneuver. On that, I'm sure we can agree.

 

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We can. I believe it was a video with Julian Leidman. Mr leidman was the one who warned him not to touch it.

 

Julian Liedman is also the dealer selling the polished Columbian half business strike as a $20,000 proof.

 

And here they are...

 

@Coinchemistry 2012 I'm learning a lot from your posts about legal statutes (is that the correct term?) and appreciate the fact that your collecting tastes do not include the Carr products. If you care to share a few of your contributions to numismatics or "the law" outside of CT posts I should be very grateful. It will help me form a better opinion/understanding of your beliefs and the laws of the US and why this thread is so long.

Just so you know, I happen to think the HPA is a toothless bunch of good-time-feel-good legislation that protects very few. I also like most of the products of Carr's artistry and imagination. I hate those that are stamped "copy."

Again, thanks for explaining the Federal Laws on the books.

 

I know. I very much dislike Liedman. But he can sell whatever he wants at whatever prices he wants, no matter how ridiculous. But no one has to buy his crap. Thats the beauty of capitlism.

 

I makes me wonder if he really believes it's a proof, or if he sold it to someone long ago as a proof and took it back on consignment in order to "stand by his product." My understanding on the rare Columbian proofs is that they all have a specific die pairing with a crack at some location. So his coin either has it or it doesn't. If it had it, why wouldn't he point that out to TPG graders and have it properly graded as a proof?

 

Well he also has some lincoln wheats that have been graded as cleaned by pcgs and he swears they are matte proofs. Matte proofs also have certain die markers. Maybe his age has a factor in it. Maybe his mind isnt as sharp as it once was?

 

Care to share any of your understanding on the Proofs? Where did you hear/see the die paring info (true) and the die crack info (?). Some other place than the Swiatek/Breen book?

Incidentally, @C-B-D and @Evan8 Julian Leidman is a well respected member of PNG, ANA, and many other numismatic organizations. He is a contributor to the Red Book and ANA Grading Guide. IMHO, he has already done more for our hobby/business then both of you combined will ever do.

You are probably not "close enough" to the industry or possibly just too young to know that prior to the establishment of TPGS's in the 1980's Mr. Leidman was one of the "go-to-dealers" when any of us needed an opinion on the Proof status of a particular coin. He was a consultant to ANACS when it was located near his offices in Maryland. He has been present at every major auction and has handled actual specimens of these coins for well over forty years helping to form great collections.

With that in mind, we can all have opinions of dealers both good and bad; yet it's probably best to keep them to ourselves so we don't appear foolish or ignorant. As for specific coins such as the Columbian Posted here, all bets are off - let's go at it.

 

Can't recall. But years ago when I had a prooflike Columbian I wondered hopefully whether it was a proof. Perhaps I am wrong about the die crack? Anyway, it was long ago, but I still have the pic of the coin. It's currently in an ANACS MS64 (no PL).

 

And the ensuing nonsense is often the direct result of insults from the fans towards anyone who feels differently, regardless of reason or sincerity. You know, kind of like when a parasite feels the need to refer to others as "gnats", not because it's necessary, but as part of his never-ending quest to show his imagined superiority. That's okay because, well, you're so special and Mighty Mouse always saves the day, so please carry on...

 

You just had to go there, didn't you?

 

I am well aware of who he is and was. I attend most of the major shows each year. He's a friendly fellow and his knowledge is broad. Simply put, I like the man. But his prices and claims are so outrageous that I cannot bear to even look anymore. He has PCGS UNC details questionable color bust halves at his table and online for $10k-$12k each. He has business strike Columbian halves listed as proofs. He has a draped bust dime that is in a NGC UNC details cleaned holder that he shows was once MS63 (before he or someone else over-dipped it). His claims and his marketing diminish his accomplishments IMO. And I feel free to express that, even at risk of appearing, as you say, "foolish."

 

Which is a direct result of the thread parasites always thread bombing every thread that mentions his name

 

The idea that for a fraud to take place it must be for such a substantial amount of money is simply false, and all one has to do is look at what lengths some go to fluff their wares as proof. Do you honestly think one so inclined to stretch the truth wouldn't do so for a much more modest "return"? Would misrepresentation for a modest profit not still be fraud? Not all actual counterfeits are of such extreme value, yet most generally agree on their danger. Along the same lines, do you, perchance, recall the 1903-CC Morgans floating around a few years back? Many, including established dealers (per the coin mags) were taken by them, yet at nowhere near such lofty prices; was this not fraud?

It's easy to throw out such large numbers and say it would never happen, but by doing so you're ignoring a much more likely scenario in order to fit your beliefs. This isn't about such high dollar scams, but simple misrepresentation that results in one paying any additional amount for something that it isn't.

 

How did this thread transform from a discussion of Carr to Julian?

 

Should've stayed on topic. I apologize.

 

I've refrained from involving myself in a number of these threads until the accusations and mud, mostly coming from you, has flown. For whatever reason you seem to think yourself cute for doing so even though it ends up leading to the very thing you later portray yourself as the victim of, but perhaps that's exactly what you want.

It takes two to tango...

 

He has always had top prices on everything. In forty years I've only been able to buy one coin from him and have sold him a few.

You need to ask two of the members.

 

My Apologies