New Daniel Carr Morgan Dollar

I would be totally ok if "the Chinese" started doing the same thing, including overstriking on genuine coins, provided that the product was of the same high quality, and no numismatically valuable coins were harmed in the process.

 

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Blasphemy from a VAMpire.

 

I'm personally not much of a fan of those fantasy coins. They look the same as normal ones...
His Amero designs are really cool though.

 

Of course when this happens, I imagine that you (like many of his other supporters) will be the first to demonize the person that actually initiates action, and suddenly the complainant will be a numismatic killjoy forever given a reputation of being vindictive and mean spirited.

You and his other supporters are also very short sighted when it comes to the argument against his pieces. Have you ever considered the possibility that many have not yet filed formal complaints because they do not wish to destroy Mr. Carr personally? I won't speak for others, but I can and will speak for myself. The fact that I am so confident in my position as a matter of law is precisely the reason I previously refrained from formally acting as legal process will generate a lot of collateral damage. My goal has been to stop Carr without destroying him in the process.

 

Oh, for crying out loud, they're tokens.......and most of us know it

 

Ken:

From the criminal manual for U.S. District Attorneys (i.e. federal prosecutors):

18 U.S.C. 489

Whoever, within the United States, makes or brings therein from any foreign country, or possesses with intent to sell, give away, or in any other manner uses the same, except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States or of any foreign country issued as money, either under the authority of the United States or under the authority of any foreign government shall be fined under this title.

My position is that 18 U.S.C. 485 and U.S.C. 487 govern. Assuming that you are correct in everything that you say concerning his works having "no serious potential for use in place of genuine money," why do you believe this statute [18 U.S.C. 489] is inapplicable?

 

So why ain't he in 'cuffs'? Apparently the powers that be don't see him as a threat........but point well taken.

 

Should we call that the "64 dollar" question?

 

Dang, it's cold up here in the southern tier of NY. A brief
visitor, I bid you all good night......

 

Touche

 

Nabbed this one on eBay for $67. Just got it back from CAC. Such a common coin tho...

 

Frankly, I'm not wasting a stitch of emotion on the issue one way or another. "Passion" is something I reserve for actual circulating issues; all this is just fodder for what I freely admit to be a cynical and perhaps malevolent sense of humor. I like Dan's stuff and tend to be in favor of him continuing, but that's as "involved" as I get.

In the real world, though, I'm seeing a bit of social engineering in the whole thing. Astute engineers establish road speed limits with the help of observing how fast drivers tend to negotiate a certain stretch of road. If you're smart about building a new college dorm complex, you leave all the common areas as grass and wait until pedestrians wear down routes before laying sidewalks.

And of you're writing laws intelligently, you're factoring (to an extent) the current attitude of society towards them. There are certain laws on the books in America (not enumerating them for obvious reasons) which are emotionally polarizing and promote vicious attack from certain subsets of society, yet they remain on the books because the majority of politicians' constituents remain in their favor. Obviously, "the people" want them to remain that way.

All of Carr's detractors base their arguments strictly on the law as it's currently written. I contend that "as currently written" represents yet another of these movable targets, one which may well be moved (or is being moved) aside in this case because no demonstrable harm to either society or numismatics is resulting, except to the blood pressure of his detractors, and aerobic exercise is good for us anyway.

You think the vituperation from Dan's opponents is bad? Wait until you see what his supporters do to the first person attempting to commit some sort of fraud using one of his coins. Come see me if that happens; I'll be the one handing out pitchforks.

 

The fraud will come. It's just a matter of time.

 

Guaranteed. And Mr. Carr's career will probably hinge on what we do about that.

 

@SuperDave you seem to be okay with the realization that someone will be taken eventually by the pieces? Why shouldn't Carr stop or be stopped then rather than having people defend his dubious practices which will only foment fraud in the future?

 

I wanna know just how much someone could be taken for in this supposedly future fraud. 1909 morgan dollars from carr are on ebay for 400 and some dollars. So the fraud will be more than that? Lets say 100,000 dollars. Now I dont know about you but if i had that much money to spend on coins, one, i would probably already know that a 1909 morgan was never made by the mint. And two, even if i dont know that much about coins, im still gonna do my homework before spending that much money.

If someone gets taken even on a 1964 peace dollar by carr, where someone may be asking a million dollars for it, wouldn't you still be suspicious? If you had a million dollars to spend on a supposedly real 1964 peace, im sure you could get an authentication done in secret with a couple experts.

I dont take coin collectors with that much money to be idiots. And maybe im giving someone too much credit. But if youre gonna spend that much money without proper knowledge, than you deserve to be taken for all your money.

Now i know there are some pretty stupid celebrities with loads of money, but how many of them do you think collects coins? Do you really think that someone like collector Bob R Simpson is gonna get defrauded by one of these?

 

There are lots of "rich idiots." One was featured here on CT a couple months ago for defacing a rare proof double eagle worth a small fortune because he thought he could "improve" it by polishing it up. You're opinion that such folks would deserve it, if they got defrauded, is disappointing and doesn't address the actual problem.

 

And you, Paul, along with Cascade (to some extent) and (I believe) Mr. Santini, are the only people I'm aware of who have simply admitted as much and I greatly respect you for it.

 

Once again, ignorance shouldnt be catered to like a handicap. People literally have all the information they need right on their phones. If this was 40 years ago, maybe fraud like you speak of could happen. But in todays world, it shouldnt happen. And if it does than the person getting ripped of is just as much to blame.

And as i recall that gentleman you spoke of was told not to touch it. He was warned. So what he did from there is on him and only him.