New Daniel Carr Morgan Dollar

None taken, and thank you.

On a personal level I agree with you regarding individual responsibility, and even tried to make this clear. However, you're arguing a completely different matter than I was. Again and again and again it has been claimed that no one could ever, under any circumstance, be fooled or mislead into believing one of Mr. Carr's copies are the real thing. Not most, but NO ONE, and this is key. How often on this very board do you see someone fooled by something that, had they taken a few moments to ask and/or research, they could've easily avoided? Even if you haven't witnessed the stupidity in person with your own eyes, your time on this very board should be enough to prove to you that often otherwise intelligent people sometimes do stupid things.

As for relying on members on this site, again, we can't even get all of our own regularly participating members to use it to their benefit, so how could we reasonably expect everyone else to? It sounds good, I agree, but the unfortunate reality is simply far different.

As for the copying, it's been gone over countless times. He didn't randomly choose the designs or use one of his own (after all, of truly a "fantasy" he certainly could have) but exactly copied those used on genuine coins. They're copies of the type, plain and simple. Sure, to the best of our knowledge an original 64 Morgan does not exist, but what was recently discovered, with photographic evidence, and according to Mr. Carr (when claiming to never have considered using such a date as recently as Aug 29th) "looks Chinese"? How do you suppose the copied designs get onto his conveniently chosen planchets? A copy doesn't have to be a coin....

 

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And that's your opinion, so what, get over it, move on.

 

How about reading the subsequent ones that state fantasy coins are legal only if marked as required by the HPA?

It is the law.

 

I suppose my question from a legal standpoint is whether it is possible to "make a copy" of a coin that does not exist in real terms, such as a 1964 Morgan dollar created through an over strike.

That might seem to be a highly technical point, but it's highly technical points that regulatory panels and courts often must decide.

 

Why ruin a 1909 Morgan with the word replica? Since when has there been a genuine 1909 Morgan? There hasn't

 

See this is why I dont mean any disrespect. I respect your responses and arguments. All of your responses that I have read on this forum show great intellect which is why I dont like picking fights with you lol.

However. I havent clocked as many hours on this earth as most of the members on here have, but I have learned about what I feel is right and ok to do in this world. I feel that Mr Carr isnt trying to defraud anybody, and from a business standpoint, I think it's brilliant. Making fantasy pieces on a real mint press. What's not to like?

One of these threads happens everytime he releases something new and guess what, he is still making them. The legal experts of CT havent stopped him.

 

But is it? Instead of jumping in hit and run style, try to consider the arguments made and unspun verifiable evidence provided to back them up. You like to brag of and clearly pride yourself on your education, Charlie; perhaps it would be wise to show critical thinking a part of it.

 

Verifiable evidence?

 

So dating an overstrike fantasy coin with a date that never existed is not enough? Why put replica or copy when the coin as dated never existed? I'm not following this train of law....

 

Since they apparently are so illegal, and the government isnt doing anything about the pieces he makes, what are you gonna do? Argue with people online about why they are or are not legal? Post some laws that can be interrupted several ways, written under, once again, a one size fits all government standard. Laws that are created under one circumstance to then be applied later to very different circumstance. Give me a break.

He pays sales tax like any business does. Why would the government want to stop him? He isnt hurting anybody. Except maybe people's feelings on this site.

Let him do what he wants. And my advice, buy as many as you can. Cause one they are damn cool, and two, if the government does step in, well the value of these pieces just went up.

It's crazy really. Here in my state weed was made legal and yet we are arguing whether or not the word COPY should be on his pieces. Priorities I guess.

 

Exactly

 

The average American is very stupid. Even the ones that aren't complete ignoramuses still lack specialized knowledge that numismatists and coin collectors have. Many here may very well have forgotten that at one point, none of us were versed in historical U.S. coinage. Congress thought unauthorized replicas, copies, or counterfeits were a threat to the hobby and could harm the uninformed; thus, it enacted the HPA. That statute, the HPA, gave the FTC the power to issue rules and binding opinions of law which it has done, and that opinion characterized changing the date to a "fantasy" date within the context of case law concerning counterfeits so as to require it be marked under the HPA.

 

They say nice things about you, too, I'm sure.

 

There's a few nice things I could say about him right now too

 

In truth, I might have a somewhat different opinion of this rather nuanced situation if FTC had any interest in enforcing HPA. However, they don't. They could sanction Ebay with ease - the site has been in direct violation of HPA since the 2014 amendment placing culpability on sales venues which allow the sale of known counterfeits - and to this day the only way to get a counterfeit removed from Ebay is if you know someone inside the organization. Heck, their reporting system doesn't even allow the presentation of evidence of the reason you're reporting something.

FTC is powerless, or chooses to be. The economic harm presented by Ebay's sales model goes untouched, and we're splitting hairs and arguing theoreticals here over the work of someone who has never demonstrably harmed a single buyer. Coinchemistry, you're plainly a thoughtful person with a mindset to defend the hobby. Why make your stand on this issue, while people are being stolen from daily elsewhere?

 

So is the Constitution but that hasn't stopped our current government administration

 

I have probably been called much worse.

 

I think you are definitely on to something regarding your eBay comments. Whether the FTC is aware of this or not is unknown, but it would make for a very interesting side discussion and one worthy of attention.

 

The government has never given a damn about coin collectors. Its all about control. Do as i say not as i do.

As I do agree the average american is an idiot (proof being in all the supporters for a certain female doing a certain unmentionable thing, and no im not talking about who you think im talking about. Or am I?). But do you know how many copies of the Mona Lisa ive seen that dont say COPY?? Hmm I wonder why....

 

Try dropping the deflective insults and blatant subjectivity long enough to read. You'll see it.