New Daniel Carr Morgan Dollar

No kidding, let's attack the real threat to numismatics, chinese counterfeits.

 

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Karma? Crap......who is selling these pieces as deception. Examples please......

 

Actually, they tried to help with the Hobby Protection Act. It was stupid to me making people stamp copy on junk casts until I heard in a counterfeit seminar back in 1973-74 that ANACS was receiving several of these crude pieces a month from non- collectors (some of them having flown in to DC so as not risking their "treasure" in the mail)!

Ever hear the story about the fella who called an ANACS authenticator for information about his Higley Copper worth 20K according to the Redbook? The employee asked if there were letters on the edge. Caller said Yes! Employee asked him to read the letters. "C" "O" "P" "Y" Well? So is it real? Yes, the authenticator said. It is a real "copy." True story.

 

I actually did do a search today for the 64-D peace dollars on eBay. A few different style "fakes" being offered, but no one trying to pass it off as real. Not yet anyway. My guess is that they get reported quickly. But it will happen. It's an inevitability, on some forum in some place.

 

Why should we single out the Chinese for unfavorable treatment when there is a domestic manufacturer that is materially doing the same thing? Showing animus to the Chinese but not Carr seems racist (and I hate to use that word but it seems fitting). Why are his fantasy dates okay but not the Chinese fantasy dates? There is a lot of hypocrisy in numismatics. Collectors start threads all the time griping about artificial toning (or otherwise altered coins) and how it will hurt collectors and yet this crap is venerated? I don't understand.

For those that like his works, if collecting his pieces makes you happy - that's fine, but let's stop pretending that the production of the pieces are lawful because some of us like them. There are plenty of numismatists who collect Omega counterfeit gold and Henning nickels, but I don't think those individuals would argue that those were legal to produce either.

 

Would you settle for numerous inquiries from people that believe his pieces are legitimately rare or valuable?

http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2016/08/1922-d-half-dollar-struck-at-private-mint.html

 

Because the Chinese do not sell them as fantasy pieces. They sell them as the real deal. And Dan only sells 'off dates'. Dates of coins that were never actually minted by the mint. There is a difference.

 

They're rare or valuable as tokens.......

 

How do you know? We see them on eBay routinely. Did the seller just happen to buy these as Chinese fantasy coins and fail to disclose this? To conclude that this is not possible is to make things up. This is why the HPA requires that the coins be physically marked so that the label never leaves the coin because it is physically part of the design.

 

I'm not talking about Chinese fantasy pieces, I'm talking about the slews of fakes from the pacific rim that are the same date, mint mark, and details of the original coins produced by the US mint and others for that fact. I'm not being racist, I'm being realist.

 

Like 1964-D Peace Dollars (that existed at least through 1970 and may still exist) or 1964 Morgans (dies, hubs, and galvanoes discovered)?

 

Maybe not incredibly rare, but they are somewhat valuable.

 

Counterfeit:

(18 U.S.C. 489 also addresses tokens that look like U.S. coins)

18 U.S.C. 487

18 U.S.C. 485

 

I'm sure Dans coins have 'markers'......so do the Chinese examples.........one must educate himself to not be fooled. If I buy a Danial Carr piece, I know I'm doing so, because I buy it from his MoonLight mint. I'll not be fooled by examples on ebay, as place I don't trust for the purchase of numismatic items.

 

All the 64-D Peace dollars were destroyed by the govmint and the Morgans were never struck. Both were never released for use as US tender. Problem solved, next?

 

Which is why PCGS has a $10,000 reward to see a legitimate 1964-D Peace Dollar, right? Which is why all of the 1933 Double Eagles were melted (oh wait - google Langbord)? The fact is that the Mint has a poor record when it comes to production and melting records, which is why the HPA requires all items that approximate official issues to be marked with the word "COPY."
Regardless, nothing in the law (or the HPA which was not excerpted above) requires that the coin be extant. That is another DCarr red herring.

 

So any and everyone who possesses contemporary counterfeit coinage is breaking these laws and subject to criminal prosecution, fines and imprisonment. Go post this on the contemporary counterfeits thread.

 

Strawman argument - I expect no less from DCarr supporters.

I did not say the pieces were illegal to possess. The comments and regulations cited were focused on the production of the pieces. This is/there is a huge distinction legally.