New Chat Room?

So, in Laura Sperber's latest Market Report (Crazy Times are Here), she drops the comment that a new chat room that "will have real information and really be monitored is about to come online."
See her article at legendnumismatics.com.

I know she has a history of dislike for existing chat rooms, just wondered if anyone knows anything....

 

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She always have something interesting to say, and doesn't care if you like it.

 

I think a chat forum that is REALLY monitored (nothing but coins & no humorous comments by members with nothing important to add) would not serve 90% of the common collectors who come to CT just to kill time, chat, or ask questions. Laura has been banned several times because of what she writes. That's unfortunate and I like what she is hinting at - she can write what she pleases..

I'd rather see it run like a club with invitation only to post as a member. Mortals as us could all be "flies-on-the-wall" and read what the "Big fish" in the business post. Why, she can even offer a subscription to read it.

 

I guess this way she can't get banned from her own site.

 

Very true. There have been some very informed numismatists such as Laura (I can name many more by their "handle" - I don't know their real ID) who are unable to add their expertise to chats. IMO, it lowers the quality rating of the forum.

Example: If just five of the best members on the Ancient Forum here were removed it would leave a BIG hole in the content.

 

Laura may not allow some folks on her site. She had a lot of bumps with some important people. I hope that's not the case.

 

Sounds interesting. I have had very good dealings with Legends (George not Laura though). Her market reports are always entertaining to read.

 

Most of us collect "dreck" and "widgets". She's made it clear on other sites what she thinks of those coins. It wouldn't surprise me if the great unwashed mass of collectors were not welcomed to the site

 

I'm not saying that I necessarily agree or disagree with any of the following, but I've read or heard in a few places that some dealers consider the (rough) cutoff for "investment grade" coins as minimally MS 65 with a value of more than $1,000 to $1,500. Obviously, exceptions will exist for rare coins in lower grades and cutoffs will vary based on certain circumstances, but some dealers don't want to even touch anything below such a line, since they don't consider such coins real "investments" that will rise enough in value to warrant consideration.

This makes sense to some degree, since dealers who sell mostly $30,000 coins would probably consider a $50 XF sample of some type a complete waste of their time. Not all such dealers, of course, but a line, arguably a class line, definitely seems to exist in the hobby between such "investment grade" coins and coins that "everyone else" collects within their smaller budgets. The "real money" in the hobby (the dreams of which that likely attract the "get rich quick" types looking for errors or rare anomalies in pocket change) really exists at the "higher level," though anyone can technically make profits off of any coin, but the odds of accomplishing any kind of life-changing success don't seem more favorable than most lotteries.

After a number of years as a member of the ANA (I am no longer a member), I feel that they appear to cater more to the high end "investment grade" side of the hobby. Again, not exclusively, but paging through "The Numismatist" reveals ads for numerous auction houses dealing in 5 and 6 figure coins, all of which remain far, far, far out of my reach. Regardless of what anyone thinks of this situation, it serves as a warning to the masses of "lower grade" collectors that the vast majority of what they collect will likely not escalate in value to any substantial degree. As people say over and over again on this very board, "don't buy coins for the money." This statement rings true more in this "lower realm" because no one should ever buy a $5,000 or a $50,000 coin without first heavily considering its investment potential. I would make the same argument for a $250 coin for others with lesser means. Never throw your money away, no matter how much you enjoy something.

This dividing line, probably annoying to some, simply exists and only wealth can really allow one to jump from one realm to another. After all, you can either afford a $30,000 coin or you cannot. This forum deals mostly with the "lower realm" (I don't mean "lower" in a derogatory sense at all, because I definitely deal there as well) and it does a more than decent job of doing so. But all collectors should remain aware of these different and nearly mutually exclusive realms and ruminate over what the situation implies for the money and time put into collecting so-called "non-investment grade" items. Such thinking can at least allow anyone to learn something about the hobby and collecting in general.

Ultimately, it all leads to the existence of some dealers who want nothing to do with lower priced items. How such preferences get communicated, either diplomatically or condescendingly, also plays into the game. A number of years ago, before coins really entered the Internet age, I called nearly all of the local coin dealers that I could find. A woman answered one of the numbers and I asked if the dealer had a store or a catalog and she told me to "hold on" for a moment. After about 30 seconds she returned and said "Mr. [whatever his name was] deals only in really rare coins." I said "thank you" and hung up and felt a little put off. Wow. He wouldn't even talk to me. But, after getting to know the hobby better, I know now that talking to me would only have wasted his time. Still, even a 10 second chat would have sat better. I could have, after all, become one of his future customers. In any case, I have accepted this dichotomy in the hobby and knowledge of both "worlds" has, I hope, made me into a more savvy and informed collector. I have also accepted that reality often doesn't conform to our desires. Some may not want this division to exist in the hobby, but wanting something doesn't make it so.

 

So, am I getting the jist of this thread, That Laura Sperber the one who hyped up the 58D Franklin to be way more than it was should be trusted to play fairly?
That same coin sold not too long ago, for almost a $100,000 dollar loss.

 

The value of coins often goes up and down so.....Are you blaming her for some fool who bough an overpriced (?) coin? The market is full of them. Some do very well.

 

It was actually a fluctuation of 100 G's in a year. That's not common,
I have a problem with the suckers that buy the over hype, and accredit some folks, and business's with undue pats on the back.

 

According to the report, "chatrooms are garbage." So why create a new one when and open yourself up to the headache of banning "no [sic] nothings" that write stuff that they'll get banned for? Also, the time to create a chat board was long ago. Is there a market segment that isn't served by existing boards, including Facebook groups?

 

It wasnt even overpriced it was an auction that went way above the estimate from two people that really wanted it. There was a third that dropped out like half way and when the winner went to sell it there wasn't anyone there that was willing to participate in the same super aggressive bidding war that happened at the first sale. It very easily could end up around that price again the next time its sold or not, coins like that can have wild variations sale to sale.

 

I should have been more specific. I guess the coin was "overpriced" for one bidder who dropped out and perhaps 95+% of people in the industry, both dealers and collectors who did not bid. It was NOT overpriced for at least two people bidding on it and of course the auction house.

 

#1 I'm not a big fish at all - especially in my house (as you know)
Hopefully, one day I will be thought of as a medium fish.

#2 I think her chat room is going to be dealer/investor/market oriented. The "club" would be made up of "market maker" types. Normal collectors, dealers (medium and small fish) would have absolutely nothing to add of any value! They/we would benefit from reading the insider chats. That's my wish, prediction, and opinion and I'm sticking to it.

 

A Discussion Forum that is designed by (and for) the prominent economic members of the numismatic market, as a method to impart information to the average collector/hobbyist, has a purpose: it is a form of venture capitalism that serves to entice the average collector/hobbyist to enter an economic transaction with the prominent economic members of the numismatic market.

Accordingly, the information shared will be presented in a fashion that benefits the prominent contributing members, and will not present any meaningful information that can be used by the average collector/hobbyist to be a threat to the prominent economic members of the numismatic market.

It is a Truism that the first Rule of The Fight Club is don't talk about the Fight Club.

 

I don't think Laura Sperber and I are on the same page.

 

I'd bet that outside of business she is a shy, sweetheart. I suggested she give a FUN Education Seminar talk but I don't think she is comfortable speaking to a crowd. If it were to happen, she would easily have standing room only to hear her speak!