New but not Greek or Roman

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Sep 27, 2016.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I can not answer the question why I buy some things but occasionally my desire to generalize my collection. Sometimes this results in a coin I really had no idea I would be buying. In this case it is a 28mm, 5.77g silver Tankah by Shah Rukh 1405-1447 AD know to me previously as successor to the famous Timur the Lame (Tammerlane). ow9550fd3371.jpg Not reading Arabic is a problem for me with coins like this so there is an excellent chance that I am showing one side of the coin wrong side up (please correct me so I can change it). I recognize the Kalima in square on what we are calling the obverse (but the fabric suggests to me that this was the upper die when struck). The other side came identified as giving the mint name Herat (Western Afghanistan) and date (AH816). I would appreciate a letter by letter translation of these legends. The coin could be better in terms of strike but this one has better detail overall than the others in the dealer's stock from which it came. I have not found a confirmation specimen so at present am relying on the seller's label.
     
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  3. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I've been doing something very similar lately - buying Islamic issues without really knowing anything about them, particularly coins that I can find in Tye's Jitals, but others as well. I won this little thing the other day, which the (very reliable and knowledgeable) Indian dealer assures me is a 1/2 tankah of Muzzafar Shah III of the Gujarate Sultanate. Sometimes I find other examples of the coins online to cross-reference, sometimes not...

    tanka1.jpg

    "Generalizing your collection" sounds quite proper and intellectually elevated. I'm going with that from now on. Here I was thinking that I was just a whore for coins and would spread my wallet for anything half-fetching that came along.
     
  4. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    "Generalizing your collection" is what we call it when we do it; "Whore for coins" is the same action by our opponent from "the other side of the aisle". I will point out that a candidate for the office of Collector should at least be comfortable with which side is up on a coin so you can see what that makes me.
     
  5. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    [​IMG]

    here's an islamic AE coin i picked up just becuase i thought it looked pretty. colors are nice. no idea what it says, but the way the put the script together with the geometry of the other patterns is cool.

    i'm pretty "easy" when it comes to coins.

    i'm sure all the coins talk about me.

    "oh yeah, that chrsmat71...he'll take home anything...here's his number". :D
     
  6. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Nice specimen !
    No time to fully transcribe both, but some hints.
    On Dougs the left shows the kalima. In margins are the names of the four righteous caliphs of Sunni Islam. In the left pic in the center is no straight forward arab. Could be spiral Kufic, which is more difficult to read. On the left of the square from top to bottom reads "al Sultan al azam". Date at top.
    Chrsmats looks central asian, possibly qarakhanid. The word at the bottom in the central square in the right pic reads "khaqan".
     
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  7. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Chrsmat71, you've got yourself a nice 'broad dirhem'. You forgot to mention the diameter of the coin to impress us all the more! Thin bronze dirhems were minted in Central Asia by the Qarakhanids and their concurrents from about 1150-1220. I believe that was because there was a severe silver shortage in the Islamic world at that time.
     
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  8. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    Thanks, guys. Sorry, I forget the attribution more of than not...


    Qarakhanid Broad Dirhem
    1178-1210 AD
    Ahmad B. Ibrahim (?)
    33 mm
    4.1g

    If that looks wrong let me know.

    I didn't know the size of the coin when I bought it, when it opened the package up and saw the coin it elicited an "oh wow" form me.
     
  9. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    It's Wilkes 1789, I think.

    Wilkes 1789.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  10. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    Qara AE dirh.jpg I changed my postings to show my coin the right way. This is it, a broad AE dirhem dated 572 AH = 1176 AD, and minted in Uzkand. Much the same, but in worse condition. The text in the polygon is the Kalima, I think. Can't find the year myself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2016
  11. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Another cool OP-addition

    :rolleyes:

    ... sadly, I don't have a coin of this type to show
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  12. Deacon Ray

    Deacon Ray Artist & Historian Supporter

    Awesome coin!
     
  13. THCoins

    THCoins Well-Known Member

    Though Doug probably already reads Arab at a higher level, here a small example which may be usefull to others. It is worthwhile to be able to recognize the Kalima on Islamic coins. This is the islamic declaration of faith. It starts with "La illaha illa Allah". That's the top line on Doug's coin. But it is both a bit faded and crowded, so not easy to read here. This part may be followed by "Wahadu la sherika lahu" on Sunni coins. But that's not always there.
    Then comes "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah". This last part i transcribed on Doug's coin to show how it is built up. (Arab reads from right to left)
    DougSrW.jpg

    On chrsmat's coin the same elements are present. But Muhammad has been written in a more decorative fashion which is also frequently seen. The "Mu" has been shifted upwards and here rides on the back of the "Ha" part.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
    Pellinore, dlhill132, stevex6 and 5 others like this.
  14. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Very informative!
     
  15. chrsmat71

    chrsmat71 I LIKE TURTLES!

    oh neat...i can see it on my coin now...thanks!
     
  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Thanks. Kalima recognition is the limit of my Arabic.
     
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