New Akragas Hemilitron

I'm not sure if it's a chunk of corrosion on the CNG coin or some green deposits scattered over metal produced by the die flaw.

 

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@Eric Kondratieff, thank you for that explanation. It was very educational!

 

Well done! That's quite the detail I was talking about!
(Theodosius, just point it to the seller and he will surely refund your money)

I agree that the CNG sample may be the host, but in this case I would be prudent and look at the coin in hand before stating for sure it is genuine, as the green patina could even be artificial.

The die break is likely an original feature of the ancient die, as it is shown also on a genuine specimen listed on CNS, I uploaded a scan here:
https://numismaticfakes.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/cns-iii-174-321-die-break.jpg


This thread is a good practical demonstration of the theorem:
collectors' networking + careful observation = Fuck forgers



Goodbye all, it was a pleasure networking with you on this case.

With kindest regards.
Raul


EDIT:
another fake sample:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1466794

The CNS plate coin I linked above, recently auctioned:
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2156630

 

Incredible information!!!

I would've never guessed the OP was a forgery.

My nagging concern is that it almost always seems one needs to find comparative examples and the replicative 'flaws', otherwise those features may seem to be just an environmental issue or a legitimate stylistic variation---especially for the relative novice such as myself. So I largely depend upon the 'experts' at auction and informed individuals on forums such as this one while perusing the forgery networks.

@Theodosius, I purchased a 'fake' last year from a major auction firm and once it was identified as such, I was immediately reimbursed. I'm sure you will encounter the same attitude and results.

 

Another one:
http://encheres.catawiki.eu/kavels/...-struck-425-406-bc-rev-crab-underneath-triton

 

The vcoins dealer I got this from has a 14 day for any reason return policy. I will be taking advantage of this. He also has a lifetime guarantee for authenticity. I have contacted him to see what he has to say. My impression is he had no idea this could be a forgery. He sent a very nice full page receipt with color enlargements of both sides of the coin on his letter head. It seems like you would not do that if you knew the coin could be bad.

 

I am convinced that 90% of dealers selling fake coins have no idea that they are doing that. They are not all scammers of course.
But this is not a good reason to forgive them.
Would you forgive a doctor who has no idea he is giving you a wrong therapy? Or an architect who has no idea he is building an house that could collapse? Or a grocery store who has no idea he is selling food that could poison you?
Everyone has to do their job as best as possible.
I think we shall always point at sellers listing fakes, so they will be more accurate in the future, to not waste their reputation. Here we are not talking of spotting fakes by advanced expensive technologies, it is enough to have an internet connection and spend some time looking on databases and comparing samples. Collectors must demand more accuracy by sellers, otherwise in some years all the private numismatic collections will be polluted by forgeries, otherwise in some years many collectors will change their hobby... and this would be very sad, because ancient coins collecting is one of the most noble hobbies ever.

 

I hear what you are saying. I was thinking of creating a step by step guide for using web and printed resources to check out coins before buying them. I will see what I can do but welcome any tips or comments. If there was one index of all known fakes by keyword it would sure make it easier for collectors and much harder for forgers. Is there such a thing yet? Thanks for all your help!

 

I'm not certain what you may be looking for, but Dr. Ilya Prokopov's Fake Ancient Coin Reports on FAC (http://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/index.php) and Forgery Network (http://www.forgerynetwork.com/) are, if not complete, fairly comprehensive.

 

Curious as to whom it was sold to, and if that purchaser sold it or kept it...or...

 

Sorry but the idea of such a list is dangerous. The subject changes daily as another fake is discovered seemingly that often. The worst thing is when collectors start to believe they are safe because they checked some list. We, certainly I, rely on a gut feeling and make some mistakes. It is better if we buy from sources of highest levels of knowledge and honesty but everyone makes mistakes. Hopefully, we learn from them.

 

Let's play another quiz boys!

This one is a bit more difficult, so sharpen your sight.

Look at this coin, recently sold by Kunker:

https://numismaticfakes.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/liparafake-img.jpg?w=700

Undoubtedly fake, struck by modern dies on a real ancient flan of Akragas. This is an "impossible" coin from a metrological point of view (5.94 g), the types should be for the tetras (8 known specimens according to Calciati, weights from 1.60 to 2.83 g).

Here another sample sold on may 2011 by the notorius ebay fakes seller Aitnacoins:
https://numismaticfakes.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/lipara-tetras-ebay-aitnacoins-19-may-2011.jpg
Other samples were sold on the bay in recent years.

Here is a group of six fakes struck by the same modern dies.

http://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=132345
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1519465
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2222937
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1841589
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1887519
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2570913

Which is in this case the detail screaming "transferred dies"?

I am preparing a post to be published on my blog asap. will someone solve the problem before?

 

This first thing that seems too improbable is that the centering is the same for all the coins. Am I on the right track?

 

No Bing, the centering is not relevant when dealing with struck fakes.
You have to spot the little detail resembling a corrosion, recurring in all those samples, like we did for the previous case discussed on this thread.

 

Okay. Let me try once again. How about the mid section of Hephaistos?

 

I am going to say that just to the left of the right elbow is a line or depression that shows up on each one... also, a divit or depression inbetween the calves... (the photos are too small / dark in some of them to be sure).

 

Anyone seeing transfer dies being used on silver? Bronzes are an easy hack. Silver less so, or so I expect. Anyone know the ANSWER to that question?

 

Tranfer dies used on silver are known already for ancient times, read this article by Stannard and Fischer-Bossert I shared some weeks ago on my blog:
https://numismaticfakes.wordpress.com/2016/04/19/dies-hubs-forgeries-and-the-athenian-decadrachm/

Today forgers use to newly engrave fake dies for the most expensive silver coins, (trying to imitate any smallest detail, even the distortions of dots on border) for a simple reason: often they cannot have access to the real rare/costly coin to transfer the negative into a mold to obtain the wax positive, so if they are enough skilled they try to engrave a new fake die using as model photos of the real coin. In these cases is possible to spot small inconsistencies (this is probably the case of dozens "exceptional" Alexander the Great silver drachms of Miletus recently sold by CNG and Heritage auctions, where the forger invented the reverse die, and used as model the obverse die of a sample in the ANS collection, identical in any detail, also distorted dots, but he missed the right range of the 9h section of the border).
But if the forger has availability of the authentic coin to be transferred on the new fake die, he certainly does, for both silver and gold coinage. For silver there are samples of Sicilian tetradrachms, Macedonian tetradrachms, Roman antoninianii, silver denarii of the social war, etc.; for gold coinage there are good samples in Prokopov's books.
The fake dies produced by transfer can be used to make both pressed or hand-struck forgeries.

 

Good eye!

 

Thanks! BTW, speaking of Milesian drachms with Alexander types, this one looks odd in a number of ways, one of which is simply the engraving of the legend (the letters are poorly executed, and the omicron and upsilon should be at least partially visible): http://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=243762