Never thought I'd do it . . .

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

This is why I keep my high-end US coins in slabs. Plus it keeps them liquid.

I’m talking about buying slabs, not coins. To be a successful collector and have a great collection, I 100% agree with you.

I am, but it still sells at price guide levels, which makes my point.

 

There are quite a few ancients that were faked in ancient times, right? And they still circulated as money because people needed money, correct? If this is true, then it muddies the waters as far as genuine/counterfeit/value.

 

Those are contemporary counterfeits, and they are generally obvious because the style/inscription is not correct. Sometimes the metal was not right (foureés), so the weight is not right, or the silver plating is peeling. But they are all still collectible in their own right.

Foureé Cheronnessos hemidrachm vs a genuine one. Note the peeling of the silver on the first one. Because there was a test cut means that the style/weight was off enough to arouse the suspicion of a merchant.

 

I was speaking more of this... an imitative issue/barbarous copy. Is it fake/counterfeit? Maybe and maybe. But it was used back in the times. So does that make it a genuine ancient or not?
Constantius Gallus, Caesar 351-354 AD

 

Here's one @John Anthony posted several years ago as an example. The top one genuine. The bottom one barbarous.. minted elsewhere.

 

They are like evasion coppers, or imitative gold florins, etc. They were struck to supplement the money supply using well-established designs (to show it was “good money”), not to deceive the populous with devalued fakes. As such they are not counterfeits, but merely imitative issues.

You can see the stark difference in style, so they should not be easily confused.

 

Right, of course. I was just posting them to show that the ancient genuine vs. counterfeit debate isn't really so black and white. Consequently, NGC not offering a guarantee on ancients doesn't bother me a bit.

 

There’s a huge difference between barbarous copy (genuine, but imitative coin), contemporary counterfeit (meant to deceive people in circulation), and modern counterfeits (made to deceive collectors). All three have their places, and it is easy (for experts) to distinguish between them.

 

Right, but I'm saying that by not offering a guarantee, NGC doesn't have to deal with folks calling up demanding refunds on their barbarous examples, etc. I'm simply suggesting that it's easier for them to blow everyone off and avoid any conflict or discussion regarding those issues.

 

Why would they? The coins are still genuine. And NGC labels them as barbarous. It is a non-issue.

 

Well dang! I didn't know they did that! Have they always?

 

@Barry Murphy

 

NGC has always done that, at least since Vagi started here 9 years ago or so. If it's ancient, we will put it in a holder but will label it barbarous, celtic imitation, Limes, fouree or whatever it is. I've seen 3 fouree's today.

Do a search on Heritage for plated, fouree, barbarous and a few other terms and you can find a lot of things we've done.

Barry Murphy

 

I believe both were wise. JMHO

 

I'll never cease to amaze me this thing about U.S Coin Forums : post a truly rare, old, and historically significant coin and you get like, 10 replies? , if you are lucky... Post a thread about TPG's, Slabbing, CAC, Grading, etc and wham!! you are up to 5 pages of replies.....()

 

If you didn’t have me on ignore, I would be more inclined to comment on your threads about great coins or to answer questions you might ask. To do so is a waste of my time since you won’t see it. But alas, it is what it is.

 

I'd like to elaborate on my quote. I have heard nothing but good things about the ancients grading/ers at NGC. I guess it blew my mind that...
Numismatic Guarantee Corporation, does not actually guarantee authenticity. That is the most important aspect of a service IMO.
And a 99+ % rate (if quantifiable) should be good enough to go ahead and guarantee the authenticity.
Or am i missing something else ?

 

To be honest, I think that's what makes this forum so active. If we just sat around and did show and tell all the time, I know I would bore of it. Discussion is good, except when it delves into the pettiness, name calling and the like.