Never thought I'd do it . . .

If op made money after all that jumping thru hoops good for him. It would not be good jump thru those hoops then guy did not buy it.

However that customer can go shop around vs tell me how I run my business. Not a fan of the holder / sticker game. Been acquiring nice slabbed world coins many with low pops.

What a lot of people appear to forget even though a coin may have a sticker a buyer has to both like the coin and be willing pony up the extra money (CAC premium) to buy the coin.

 

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Not a waste if you learn from this experience.

 

There are, but that’s why ancients collectors take the time to learn authentication and how to spot deceptive practices (tooling, repatination, etc). Buying from a trusted expert dealer who guarantees his wares is also a level of protection, but it is up to the buyer to grade and research the value to ensure the price is not a rip-off. There are also lists of blacklisted eBay sellers to help protect buyers on eBay (and that saved me several times as I was still learning). And if you are still unsure after sifting through the multitude of info on the web, there is a network of literally thousands of experienced collectors/dealers/experts on CT/Forvm/Facebook/etc. who are more than happy to help and point out what they see.

As for attribution, there are plenty of resources online (auction records, Wildwinds, OCRE, etc.). NGC rarely goes further than basic identification, so attributing the variety further is on the collector.

Basically, collecting ancients takes effort and intelligence. Buying slabs does not. That’s why ancients collectors are typically more confident in paying up for a coin outside of holders/stickers.

 

CAC adds value in the market, that is just plain undeniable. Though I feel that it is unnecessary for the those that have known how to grade for themselves. The buy the coin not the slab rule still works for me, in fact I just bought a complete collection in early PCI slabs for a song that I think would mostly cross.

 

You can buy the coin and not the holder and still buy CAC coins. I went to a small local show yesterday and bought a single coin- I viewed raw, slabbed, 3rd tier, everything... it just so happens the only coin that really spoke to me that wasn’t out of budget had a sticker on it. I wish it didn’t and was cheaper, but I was just glad to find something I liked.

I don’t love the concept of CAC but I try not to let it get in the way of enjoying the hobby... if I have to throw down extra money for those, that’s a drag but the only dealer offers I had at strong premiums above retail yesterday were on CAC coins in my collection, and I have some great non-CAC toners. I guess it goes both ways.

 

Problem is, NGC does not guarantee authenticity or attribution. All it guarantees is the grade. Read more here: https://www.ngccoin.com/specialty-services/ancient-coins/guarantee.aspx

And the attribution they do provide is limited to "Athens. Obol." And maybe a date range. That's not much of an attribution!

 

That's news to me. Thanks. Seems about useless then.

 

@Johndoe2000$ Actually its not useless. Barry on the ancients board is a grader at NGC and he is very active, he even reached out to a member who was showing pictures of a ancient that was a fake and let him know. David Vagi is a well known expert and is NGCs main ancient grader. I'm sure some fakes have been found but its rare and I'd rather buy a NGC graded ancient than a raw one unless the seller is willing to stand by the coin if its found to be fake later on. Someone actually touched upon the reason why you cannot fully guarantee the authenticity of ancient, I actually had asked about that before.

 

When you said this and started this thread I figured that. Sometimes you go to extra lengths to place a special piece in the right collection

 

I wouldn't call it withholding it, but there are areas where the sticker can be worth several thousand or more and just like with grading in general you won't get the benefit of the doubt with anything there. Just as one example for MS 66 1926 Double Eagle there's something like 1400-1500ish of them by PCGS and NGC, but only 71 of them have stickered. That's a coin where the sticker would fetch another several thousand at auction so while many may not have been submitted, a lot almost certainly have as every incentive to try is there. They have a reputation for being tight with gold and very tight with gem gold overall.

Seated stuff can seem over conservative in how they're treated, but on the bright side regardless of how it turns out you can always call them and find out the reasons. Granted as a dealer it is a little more expensive since collectors only get charged for what stickers, but you can always think of the call as like a mini crash course summer seminar

 

I love your choices! Not a hypocrite, possibly a student? Best Wishes!!

Rich

 

I’m curious, I was under the assumption that only an approved list of members had submission privileges to CAC. If you never submitted before, does that mean CAC has opened their submission membership? I was under the impression that they were closed to new members.

 

Yes, thank you very much. I didn't understand the meaning of the letters P and N.
I don't think you're being hypocritical by complying with your customer's request, especially if they're a good customer.

 

Doing stuff like this is how you win a customer and a friend. I had a dealer that helped me in several ways, without me even asking. It built a trust that has lasted for many years. When he quit being a dealer, I had bought over 40 really nice coins from him.

 

Case in point I was watching proof trade dollars at a ha sale. They had a nice group of them. Proof 64 in an ngc holder was selling for $3800-4K. Pcgs holder same $45-4800. Pcgs cac proof 64 was bringing $6k basically 65 non cac money. Both Pcgs and cac I feel are tough on trade dollars just like I feel cac is tough on gold

 

Barry Murphy and David Vagi are foremost experts, and they are perfectly capable of spotting nearly every fake (I’d wager 99+%). I would implicitly trust their opinion unless I found evidence/contrary opinions otherwise. With such a stellar track record, I am really surprised that they don’t offer any authenticity guarantee.