Nero Tetra

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by arashpour, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    And... My first Nero Antioch tetra s-l1600.jpg
     
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  3. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Fantastic coin with great detail, congrats.
     
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  4. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Ancient Aussie It is great coin But I think it was heavily cleaned of horn silver as you can see the surface shows that and there is still some traces of horn silver on face.
     
  5. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    These tetradrachmas of Antioch are a cut above what the eastern mints were producing at the time. Unlike the tetras of Alexandria they were of good silver (from 63-80 percent fine depending on the year of his reign) and the images of the emperor was often startlingly different from the imperial mints of Rome. On the Antioch pieces Nero looks quite a bit more imposing than those of Rome, less corpulent and self indulgent and more authoritative.
     
  6. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    @kevin McGonigal Thanks for info very informative. I will do XRF and check the silver content. Do you expect the XRF shows 63 to 80 percent surface content or these number apply to core of coin? because the XRF machine I use shows surface with very small penetration in micro meters.

    also yea I noticed his bust looks more totalitarian and stronger looking than the reality .
     
  7. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    The easiest way to determine the silver content is by year. The first two year issues of this coin were 63%, then it jumped up to 80% and stayed there until the last two years of issue where it declined slightly to 78%. This is from a text I have to get my hands on to give you the corresponding dates on the coins themselves. The more recent analyses take into account the variations between surface and core alloys. Give me a bit of time to get ahold of the text.
     
  8. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Arashpour: I love these coins, too. If you don't have the McAlee number and info just say the word and I'll post it here this evening when I get home.
     
  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Nero - Antioch Tet:

    RI Nero AR Tetradrachm 54-68 CE Eagle.jpg
    Antioch, Syria
    Nero Regnal year 8, Caesarian year 110, (AD 61/62)
    AR Tetradrachm 25 mm x 14.05 grams
    Obverse: NERWNOS KAISAROS SEBASTOU, Laureate bust right, wearing aegis.
    Reverse: Eagle standing left on thunderbolt, palm branch before, H/IP behind.
    Ref: RPC4182
    Ex: @Ancientnoob
     
  10. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    Thanks @philologus_1 I appreciate if you send me McAlee number please
     
  11. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Arashpour: the reference book I think you are looking for is, "Coinage in the Roman Economy" by Kenneth W. Harl, Johns Hopkins Press, 1996. Like you seem to be, I am very interested in the actual metallic composition of coinage and for Roman coinage it can be bewildering. I have tried to do my own specific gravity tests with not much success.These Nero tetradrachmas of Antioch were originally tariffed at three denarii from 56-57 AD and weighed 14.5 grams and were .63 fine silver. From 59-63 their fineness was increased to .80 and their weight to 14.6 grams and they were now tariffed at 4 denarii. From 65-68 the fineness was reduced slightly, to match the slight debasement of the denarius, to .78 fine and the weight slightly reduced to 14.35 grams. Over in Alexandria the tetradrachmas were tariffed four to the denarius and started off from 56-57 at 13.9 grams of 23.15 fineness. From 58-68 their weight to 13.2 grams and purity to an average of under .17 fineness. that's why I said the Antiochene tetras were a cut above the others. For those wondering about the allusion above about how the coins were tested for fineness metallurgists now know that the fineness of a metal is different at its core than it is at the surface. That has to be taken into account when determining the alloy content of a coin.
     
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  12. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    @kevin McGonigal Thanks for the info I am indeed interested in metallurgy of ancient coins and their XRF results. Mine is A.D. 60-61. 13,5 g - 25 mm Is that normal? It seems a bit low weight than the ones you mentioned above.
     
  13. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Info re: initial coin posted...

    McAlee 257, struck in 60/61AD. Snip from McAlee below/attached.

    upload_2018-6-17_17-34-22.png
     

    Attached Files:

  14. philologus_1

    philologus_1 Supporter! Supporter

    Mine, below, was struck 63/64AD, weighs 13.8 gr., measures 24.5 mm., die axis 12.
    Attrib.: McAlee 264, Prieur 90, Wruck 46, RPC 4190.
    upload_2018-6-17_18-4-15.png
     
  15. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I would not be too concerned about the somewhat lighter weight. I don't know if Antioch was minting their coins al marco or not but circulation is going to knock off some of the original weight. By the way my father was a master metallurgist and while I did not follow in his footsteps as a career I have always had a fascination for the physics and chemistry of metals, or at least in so far as it affects practical applications. My studies tell me the ancients were far more knowledgeable and proficient in metallurgy than we give them credit for.
     
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  16. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    @kevin McGonigal Thanks Yea I am also same as you very interested in knowing ancient metallurgy and as matter of fact use it as one of the way to authenticate coins. I tested almost all silver coins in my collection and found there were either traces of gold less than 1% usually or Bi Is these indicate authenticity ? I think for regular priced coin can we safely assume this means authentic? I know for expensive coins its possible they melt ancient silver low graded coins and use that but don't think for common denarii or tetra like these they do that right? I am asking this since you might have some experience in this topic.
     
  17. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Not really experienced but I know precious metals are almost never encountered in a pure state and could not be made 100% anything in ancient times. What might be interesting to ascertain is what trace elements are more likely to be encountered in one region rather than another. That might enable us to pin down where in an empire the metal may have come from originally. Thus Dacian denarii silver coins might be differentiated not just by style from Spanish silver coins but by their metallic content. Though my father made a good living from metallurgy it is just a side interest for me. It may be possible, though, for authentication of ancient coins, perhaps coins from other areas and times, by discovering trace elements which could not possibly be in coins of that time from that part of the world.
     
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