need help identifying ancient coin

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by GH#75, Dec 25, 2019.

  1. GH#75

    GH#75 Trying to get 8 hours of sleep in 4. . .

    I got this online in a coin lot, so there were no specifics listed. I was hoping one of you might know the origin of the coin.
    image.jpg image.jpg
     
    Marsyas Mike likes this.
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  3. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Looks like an early modern coin, not ancient. You should also post this at the world coin board.
     
  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Looks to be Polish or something. Not ancient.
     
  5. Oldhoopster

    Oldhoopster Member of the ANA since 1982

    Poland - Johann Casimer (sp?) 1 solidus or something like that

    I don't have my references handy but the date is on your top pic between 4:00 and 6:00 (I can't tell from the pic) and the pic is rotated almost 180 degrees. Either mid 1500s or 1600, I can't remember. It may be listed in numismaster
     
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  6. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I think I have one of those, but I can't find a photo of it. Here is my attribution for the flip:

    Poland 1664
    Æ Solidus (Boratynka)
    John II Casimir Vasa

    IOAN.CAS.REX, bust right, T.L.B below (for mintmaster Tito Livio Burattini) below
    bust / SOLID.REG.POLO. 1664 around heraldic eagle.
    KM 110.
    (1.02 grams / 16 mm)

    These coins are pretty common, and yet very interesting. I say this because when researching mine, that mintmaster fellow turns out to be a genius with a Wikipedia page. Here's the opening paragraph:

    Tito Livio Burattini (Polish: Tytus Liwiusz Burattini, 8 March 1617 – 17 November 1681) was an inventor, architect, Egyptologist, scientist, instrument-maker, traveller, engineer, and nobleman.[1][2][3] He was born in Agordo, Italy, and studied in Padua and Venice. In 1639, he explored the Great Pyramid of Giza with English mathematician John Greaves;[3][4] both Burattini and Sir Isaac Newton used measurements made by Greaves in an attempt to accurately determine the circumference of the earth.[5]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tito_Livio_Burattini

    I can't make out the initials below the bust on the OP, but Burattini was mintmaster for a lot of these, I seem to recall.

    Coin Community Forum has a pretty good post on this too (if it is okay to link the competition!):

    https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=254539
     
  7. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    My coin is Lithuanian rather than Polish and has a different reverse but shows the layout with 1661 date at upper left. Your reverse is nearly inverted so your date is at the bottom of the photo.
    v00960bb2772.jpg
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth
    The political situation is covered on the link above.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Here's a photo of my 1664 Poland version (eagle reverse):

    Poland 1664 AE lot (0).jpg
     
  9. Bardolph

    Bardolph Active Member

    I am not familiar with coins from Eastern Europe and the Baltic states, but on GH#75's coin I can clearly read REG, short for REGINA, queen, so we can rule out any REX, DUX or COMES
     
  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Welcome to Coin Talk, Bardolph!

    The "REX" is on the obverse (portrait) side. The "REG" is on the reverse and probably is short for REGNVM ("Kingdom") rather than REGINA ("Queen"). Doug's Lithuanian example reads "DVC". So the full title would go something like "Kingdom of Poland, Duchy of Lithuania". I think.
     
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  11. Bardolph

    Bardolph Active Member

    As I commented, I have absolutely no knowledge of the coins of Poland and the Baltic countries, and practically nothing either of the early history of the area, apart from the battle of Tannenberg. In my classes of medieval European history, Poland was of limited importance and first appeared on the syllabus of the 16th Century.

    Coming back to coins, it is relatively rare in Western Europe for the abbreviation REG. to stand for REGNUM or REGNI, as more weight was given to the holder of the title (king, duke, etc) than his possession (kingdom, duchy etc). The only exception that comes immediately to mind is Aragon, which contemporaries always referred to as the Crown of Aragon, never as the kingdom of Aragon.

    So I carried out a little research on the net (Wikipedia, and the Oxford History of Poland and Lithuania) and came up with the fact that Poland did indeed have a queen who ruled, namely Jadwiga (1373/4 – 17 July 1399), who was the first female monarch of the Kingdom of Poland, reigning from 16 October 1384 until her death. She was the youngest daughter of Louis the Great, King of Poland and Hungary and his wife Elizabeth of Bosnia.

    Jadwiga was crowned "king" in Cracov, then the capital of Poland, on 16 October 1384. With her mother's consent, Jadwiga's advisors opened marriage negotiations with Jogaila, Grand Duke of Lithuania who was still a pagan. Jogaila promised to become a Catholic and to promote the conversion of his pagan subjects. He was baptised, changing his name to Władysław, and married Jadwiga on 15 February 1386 (thus creating a personal union between the Kingdom of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania). Less than a month later, he was crowned King of Poland as Władysław Jagiełło (4 March 1386). Jadwiga and Jagiełło then worked closely and amiably together as co-rulers.

    I repeat that I know nothing about Polish-Lithuanian coins of the period, but if this particular coin has a REG. on one side and a DUX on the other, could it perhaps be a coin of the two co-rulers, the queen of Poland and her husband, King of Poland and Duke of Lithuania?
     
  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

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