I see the luster is dull, do you think the black spots are residue Doug? At first I just assumed a old haze and the black spots were old nasty tone and that both would come off with a dip. Do you feel the underlying coin has already been overdipped? The top pic of TES I thought I saw a lot of luster underneath, but maybe I am seeing things.
Typically when that dark toning is present pretty much everyplace on the coin it is a sign that the coin has already been dipped. And what you see is what the dip did not remove - leftovers in other words. Not what I would call residue. I agree that the coin looks to have some luster left in the lettering but the rest of it looks to have been stripped already. That could just be the pics, or it could be that the luster really has been stripped. But any more dipping, enough to remove the rest of dark toning in the recesses and protected areas, would almost certainly strip any remaining luster if there is any.
Doug, The reason why so many people believe that the term "black beauty" refers to the mint state Jefferson Nickels from 1958 & 1959 is because that is what the foremost expert on the series says in his book. The following is a quote of Bernard Nagengast from the JEFFERSON NICKEL ANALYST. Now, if you are saying that the term originally belonged to dark blue proof coins from the 60's, we will have to defer, since most of us are not old enough to remember the early 60's.ld-guy-smile: But because Nagengast is giving credit to the mint state coins from 58 & 59, you are going to have a tough time convincing the masses that you are right.
None of them all of them- There is no middle of the road on the chemical oxidation/reactions that occur to produce the colors. You either accept that this is a naturally occurring phenomenon and that humans and their actions are natural or you don't. I understand how the market pressured the TPG to slab these coins. IMO they are environmentally damaged, of course this is coming from someone who bill buy cleaned coins for their superior strike qualities. I just think it is dumb, no stupid - to ask of have graders guess at ethics. I like colored coins, I think they are cool. I think they should grade them all and then they can call them for what they exactly are.. environmentally altered surface -
There a bunch of different kinds of toning and some are known for being beautiful while others are known for being distracting, so yes there is good and bad toning. Let's look at some examples and assume they are all NT. Bag Toning Morgan Dollars stored in canvas bags in bank vaults often formed incredible rainbow toning after being undisturbed for decades. While most toned Morgans are considered to be bag toned, crescents of toning and textile toning are tell tale signs of bag toning which is often considered some of the most beautiful types of toning. Here are some examples of bag toning: Rainbow, crescent, and textile. Target Toning Often referred to as bullseye toning, target toning displays rainbow patterns that progress towards the outer edges of the coin which were in contact with the toning source, usually a coin album. This is also one of the most attractive types of toning. Here are some examples. End of Roll Toning This type of toning is caused by the paper touching the last coin in the roll. It is usually found in two forms. The first is when the paper is crimped around the edge of the last coin leaving the centers of the coin exposed to toning. The second is when the paper is folded over the last coin. EOR toning is often sought after by collectors because of the unusual and distinctive toning patterns. Here are some examples. Tab Toning Tab toning is found mostly on commemorative coins and displays peripheral toning along with a line towards a circular toned spot at the center of the coin. Sometimes attractive, other times not, this toning is also desirable because it indicates originality. Streaky Toning Most collectors do not prefer this type of toning because the toning is uneven. More often than not, streaky toning will have a negative effect on the value of the coin. Attractive examples displaying streaking toning are elusive. The Jefferson Nickel below displays attractive streaky toning. Variegated Toning This type of toning shows different colors with distinct boundaries and lacks the gradual progression seen on most of the types explained above. Typically, only the toning enthusiast will find these patterns attractive. Mottled Toning This is the type of toning that is normally envisioned when someone talks about unattractive toning. The pattern is interrupted and looks uneven, spotted, or splotchy. I have seen some attractive mottled toned coins, but more often then not, mottled coins are dogs. You will excuse me if I have only a limited number of examples to choose from since I try to collect attractive coins for my collection. In the end, eye appeal is what counts. If you like the look of a mottled coin, don't hesitate to buy it, but always consider how easy it will be to sell before deciding on a price.
WOW Lehigh. Mad props! May I suggest you copy and paste into a new thread? Please?. That type of post needs to be placed somewhere it's easy to find again. Those are all examples of what are considered Natural toning, correct? Thank you!
Yeah Paul, I know. But his book was not even published until 1989, many years after the name was first coined.
Excellent examples, now do you have some pics of "bad toning" to show folks ? The harmful kind ? The dark brown and/or black toning that is one step away from corrosion ?
Yes that was a most ideal response Lehigh. I will definitely print it out for my coin binder. Thanks for taking the time to put that together. Your work is done and you can go home now.:thumb:
Again, I am not saying you are not right. I am only saying that since that is what he published, that is what most people are going to believe. I have no idea personally, I wasn't even alive. Furthermore, I don't really care, I think both the sintered planchet and dark blue proofs are ugly as sin. I was only trying to explain why the disagreement was taking place.
Not really Doug, I don't collect ugly coins. What I posted under the mottled section is the best representation of bad that I can give. And yes, I know that toning can be hideously ugly, just not in my collection.
GDJMSP << what coins exactly would you consider to have natural toning?>> In a three part series on natural toning, I answer this question, with input from leading collectors, such as Dr. Duckor, Jay Brahin, Stewart Blay, and from expert dealers like Joe O’Connor: http://www.coinlink.com/News/us-coi...nd-appreciating-naturally-toned-coins-part-1/ http://www.coinlink.com/News/us-coi...nd-appreciating-naturally-toned-coins-part-2/ http://www.coinlink.com/News/uncate...nd-appreciating-naturally-toned-coins-part-3/
