Natural Toning Versus Artificial Toning

Whoa, what just happened? Fast Eddie was just adding his usual ( ) to a thread.

@19Lyds

Many call the SE at the top "colorized." as the color is not considered to be toning.

Now, my feelings have been hurt. I'm going back to the forum for grownup numismatists.

 

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What about anodized coins? Fresh from the Canadian and others mint? Are they toned ~ well no, they are called colourized by Canada, but what if the metal they are anodized with, oxidized a surface appearance of a different color, would they then be toned? Colorized-Recolorized? or Toned-colorized Coins? Wow imagine the new slabbing variations

 

Absolutely.

But, it cannot be argued that the colorized Silver Eagle is "natural"?

The coin below it is the result of whats known as "cardboard" toning where the eagle is placed between two pieces of cardboard for storage. Wink Wink

PCGS considers it "Market Acceptable" (i.e. Natuarl, unmessed with, not Artificial)

Soooo, the gate has been thrown WIDE OPEN for any and all to "tone their own"!

There are also, supposedly, PCGS Graded Silver Eagles that have textured "bag toning" which makes absolutely no sense because Silver Eagles are NEVER stored in Bags at either the US Mint or Bulk Buyers or Personal Collectors. TOTALLY ARTIFICIAL but they get graded as market acceptable.

My advice: If someone wants to get into the Toned Coin Market then ONLY do so with the understanding that the price you pay may very well NOT be sustainable as the coin could possibly turn. If it turns, PCGS "may not" honor their grade guarantee in which case the buyer gets screwed. OR that buyer then resells the coin at a loss and somebody else gets screwed!

 

How long ago did artificial toning start occurring? Do we even know that? I know I got a round of silver a few years ago. Threw it into a drawer that was kind of humid and 3 years later I found it toned. Don't know if that is relevant.

 

Good rule, @Insider. He can pick the fight, and I can't come back at him. Ain't you a fair little thing?

 

You started it, you made it personal. Why don't you use that superior IQ of yours to challenge what I said, instead? You know I'm right, that's why you don't. You know "AT" is arbitrary. You think I'm wrong, prove it, define "AT." You won't, because you have IQ enough to know I'm right.

 

Well de-toning with cyanide solutions were going on in the late 1800s as Bright-White were the sellers, not the toned, as they recognized it as corrosion and viewed it undesirable. Then in the late 1960-70, the desire for 'original' surfaces came about, so the toning ( meaning untouched ) became more desireable as it 'hadn't been cleaned'. Then along came the idea that there was ' Natures Art with color on Metal' ~ my description~ when the current push for pretty and intensive artificial toning came out to take advantage of all who couldn't tell ( including the TPG ) as prices way out did Whitish original surface coins. My view of course.

 

I would just call it anodized, not toned or colorized.
The process can produce one color or multiple, like this:

 

@eddiespin, wrote some more ....... What is the hang-up about IQ and why all the non-numismatic personal attacks? From what I've seen in life, those folks with high IQ's who are comfortable in their own skin, act very differently.

 

@Bman33 read this page to get a general idea of what is considered monster toning and what is artificial (it is about Morgans, but it is a good place to begin):

http://www.jhonecash.com/coins/tonedmorgans.asp

 

I hope I will develop a "Spidey Sense" for detecting AT. Nice website, looks like I have a lot of pictures of Morgan's to look at. I like the color toning chart too.

 

In that article, they talk about how toned coins were dipped to remove the toning in the past. What did they dip them with? And would the dip work on AT coins?

 

Look at this lug, will you? So afraid to take me on directly, he has to talk about me indirectly. What disrespect.

 

So the same old argument about NT vs AT breaks out and you guys are taking it personally. Really?

 

Lehigh, these upstarts want a real education, they needn't go further than our threads in the archives.

 

eddiespin, posted: "Lehigh, these upstarts want a real education, they needn't go further than our threads in the archives."

Thanks for the "heads-up." Too bad we needed to wait for page #2. Hopefully the OP will see this.

eddiespin, posted: "Look at this lug, will you? So afraid to take me on directly, he has to talk about me indirectly. What disrespect."

Anyway, IMO, pool room talk should stay in the pool room. BTW, personal attacks are frowned on so I try very hard not to make them, especially with members who are high-IQ geniuses in their own mind.

 

Note: When a silver coin is dipped, it most likely will NOT retone for a VERY LONG TIME.

Some types of toning require minting residue on the surface of the coin which can be solvents and/or light machine oil or simply oil from a canvas bag.

There is a "specific" reason that Morgans tone a certain way and Peace Dollars tone in a completely different manner.

 

I do not think that the items you mentioned much affects the difference in toning. This is a comparison of the surface of a Morgan MS state with a Peace MS state. The top one is 100X and the bottom one is 400X with a light ( Not an USB) lab microscope with surface incidental lighting. Since toning characteristics are directly affected by diffraction of the surface layers, note the jagged flow lines of the Morgan than the subdued flow lines on the Peace, so More intense coloration will be on the Morgan than a Peace dollar. Once you see the actual surface of coin , the reasoning becomes more focused on the press/die/pressure, etc., than the above. M.O. of course. The photos are mine.

100X Morgan Peace


400 X Morgan Peace