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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;EWC3, post: 5144468, member: 93416&quot;]Fraid that is not really the way I see it Kevin. Within 20th century archaeological parlance what was going on back then in Germany was to a large extent&nbsp; a “custom and command economy”. (Early gold issues would not much change that).&nbsp; But that too seems to me a clumsy way to put the matter. Ancient Chinese texts put the matter more accessibly when they dictate that “money should travel down not up”.</p><p><br /></p><p>What I judge the Chinese were saying is that rulers/states should get their taxes (and that would be primarily food grains) somewhat covertly – that is - generally under some religious pretext – so its “upward” progress was hidden. The goodies could then be distributed by the emperor/pharaoh/clan chief as if he was the font of all wealth. So goodies were openly only seen to travel “down” - as a kind of largess. That was at the heart of how power was exercised in pre-coinage economies.</p><p><br /></p><p>Its no coincidence that coin first appeared used alongside forms of atheism in Europe, India and China.</p><p><br /></p><p>But that too risks an over-simplification. I learned something getting up at 5 am this morning. BBC Radio 4 prayer for the day was from a Scottish minister who claimed that at the time of John Knox the Catholic church was taking 18 times more from the Scottish economy that the Scottish king (!) – and that that lay at the root of the protestant shift. Fascinating.</p><p><br /></p><p>The move from a “custom and command economy” to one driven by taxing coin driven market activity was not a one time event, the two systems dovetailed. They still do really – Keynsianisms are not that far from the “down not up” ancient philosophies. (Keynes himself hated coins and claimed the ancient Egyptians got on perfectly well without them!)</p><p><br /></p><p>All this is not to deny that barter happened in pre-coinage societies. Of course it did. But it operated at the fringes of the system, a bit like a kind of black market, taking up the slack where the state failed to provide.</p><p><br /></p><p>The simpler story about coinage merely replacing barter started with Aristotle so has been doing the rounds for more than 2 millennia. Not likely then that little old me pointing out its wrong is going to have much effect. Sigh.</p><p><br /></p><p>Rob</p><p><br /></p><p>PS – I think you were right earlier to say Roman inflation probably did not much track debasement prior to Aurelian. But I suspect that would be on an index of the denarius against bread etc. I tend to doubt your claim that base denariii/ants freely changed at fixed rate against gold. Do you have evidence to back the claim?</p><p><br /></p><p>Thanks anyhow for moving the discussion onto these important issues![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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