N777mwood at it again!

Very hard to get that bleach funk out! Looks like he bleached the freaking color right out of back as well! I try to tell folks to watch out for dem 1914's, cause they are easily bleached white. Other signs to look for; leaching of the green ink on the back! I've even seen gold certs with massive leaching!
I own a horribly bleached 1914 $20 as well kookoo, so your not alone, in fact if anyone on this board has a half worthy collection of bank notes well have a few of them bleached! It's one of the first things I check when I receive a note in the mail
btw: thanks for the info and name kookoo. I have a couple of websites so I might build a page so we can compile a database of known bank note processors so people can double check names before bidding.
I don't want to be that guy that gets burn on huge investment notes, like a $5,000 1886 Silver Cert! I know slabbed notes are the way to go, but a lot of us like to take the risk and the gains that come with raw notes and if a simple list of names can minimize that risk than what's to lose.

 

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Is there a company like NIC that restores notes and is acceptable to collectors? Evidently this is more acceptable in the art world. It is even recommended by appraisers, conservationalists and all major auction houses. There should be an option for collectors to preserve a valuable bill as well.

 

Are there people that restore paper money? Yes. Is it acceptable to collectors? Yes, as long as the restoration is disclosed.

Restoring notes and doctoring them are two different things. Restoration in the paper money hobby is generally considered the professional repair of tears, paper pulls and other defects in the paper. This is acceptable but only if disclosed. The people who professionally restore paper money will only restore the defects in the paper. They do not try to improve the appearance by cleaning the note.

I don't travel in the fine art circles but I assume the standard is the same -- full disclosure.

Washing and pressing of paper money is not considered restoration. This is doctoring and is usually done by amateurs who end up damaging a note. It is done by people who have one goal in mind -- making money. They are not interested in preserving a note. They are interested in passing a VF note off as EF in an effort to get it out of their inventory at the highest price possible.

 

Thanks Ron, appreciate it. I will keep my eyes peeled for other eBay vendors for potential doctorates. And a database would at least keep our members more informed about who the reputable sellers are. I'm still happy about the purchase, maybe not in the original way I imagine, but it was a learning experience and its still a rare note. I'll create a YouTube video and post the link on here, sometime this week. And so...back to the drawing board, have to find me another 1914 $20, will go for a slabbed example this time around and find an AU with a PQ designation.

 

What feedback will the seller get? Just curious, I know with the return policy and all, it would be easy for the seller to simply tell you that if you're not happy you should have returned the note.

Dave

 

That's a good question, I generally have an unorthodox way of thinking when it comes to feedback. In this case, I probably won't leave any feedback, and yes, I could have just as easily contacted him and returned it for a full refund. I'm just the type of guy that doesn't believe in issuing retaliatory feedback. In essence, he did deliver on all the expectations, even if he didn't advertise his goods as being repaired or doctored. It's a buyer beware world on those auction sites. The note will be a good educational tool for me for future purchases, gives me something to compare to for other buying opportunities.

 

On a side note, it would have been a different story if I would have purchased an expensive note, $5k $10k and up.

 

I would like to get a recommendation for someone who may do this. Knowing who, and the cost involved, may make a difference in my buying decisions. Do the betterTPGs reference the restoration on the holder? I haven't seen anyone do this but I haven't purchased hundreds of notes either. It was mentioned that the PPQ designation isn't used. Is this the only thing to look for?

 

I would be interested in knowing too. I haven't seen a designation for restoration on PMG and PCGS yet. I am curious, anybody know what "apparent" means when a note comes back with this tag?

 

I don't blame you, I'd have a similar dilemma and was just curious to hear. Of course this is how such a seller can move forward with his efforts and still maintain a high feedback score. If it were me, I'd have returned the note and left no feedback. I've done that a few times with eBay purchases though I still wish there was a way to tell other potential buyers "this guy's not telling you everything up front, and you may get (and return) something you don't expect".

Dave

 

There is a woman in the US who is known among paper money dealers who does this type of restoration. Her identity is kept a closely guarded secret. A good friend of mine who has been in the paper money hobby since the 1950s made use of her services about 15 years ago for a note from Zanzibar that was torn in half. Even he had to go through a third party to get the note to her and he still does not know who she is. It cost him over $1,000.00 and took almost two years to complete. The note looks great (I saw it before and after).

 

With people starting to feel oversensitive over their character, I just leave well enough alone. Buyers who are in the wrong are starting to throw lawsuits out there to people who leave bad feedback and call it defamation of character. All I can do is educate myself and those that want to start collecting. And having a genuine sample note that's been doctored will go a long way to detecting others like it in the marketplace.

 

"Apparent" is a term used by PCGS to indicate some type of problem with the note (washed, stained, repaired, etc.). Usually the reason for the "Apparent" designation is listed on the label. PMG uses a designation of "Net" to indicate problems.

 

This would be a little too secretive for me. I would want to know more about the person and/or preferably deal with a company; similar to a TPG. Thats why I referenced NIC in my original question and another statement with "knowing who". Curious, did this individual ever get the note graded, and if so, was it evident to the TPG? That was a lot of time and effort involved.

 

You assume that we all know what NIC is.

Did he ever get it graded? No, what would be the point in that? Authentication? After 50+ years I think he knows a little bit about detecting fakes. Grading? After the repair it was still no better than VF. (You may find this hard to believe but TPG is a uniquely American industry that is not widely accepted outside the US.)

Time and effort? Considering that the Pick catalog lists it only as Rare and the note is in the 5 figure range it was probably worth it.