Mysterious reverse

Some coins of Constantinus I and II as well as Licinius represent sometimes on their reverse a symbol in a X form (frequently referred to as "Camp plan") surmounted by Sol holding a globe and raising his right hand (see below a picture of my AE coin of Constantinus II, Thessalonica 337-340 AD). Four raws in an X shape would be a vulnerable shape for a camp.The reference of such geometrical figure as a Camp plan is far from obvious. It could be a monumental bird's eye view of a monumental stepped base. As this type of reverse is to be found on Thessalonica coins, it also has been intepretated a major cross-roads in this stategical location. Any other interpretation would be welcome, as well as pictures of reverses of a similar nature.

 

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A rare type. Congrats!

 

Romans did have maps of sorts depicting bird's eye view of roads and towns. Although they didn't rely on accurate scales and coordinates like we do, they had so-called itineraries that roughly guided travelers from town to town by showing them which road to take. Some were so large they mapped the entire road network of the empire and all significant towns.

Below is but two small fragment of the Tabula Peutigenariana...the most famous surviving itinerary of the Roman world.





Then there is the famous 3rd century map of the city of Rome (not to scale) of which large fragments still survive to this day....the Forma Urbis. Here are a few fragments below to give you an idea of what it looks like.





Bird's eye view indeed! The Romans were not the first though. Greeks were doing this before the Romans. How else do you think the phalanxes knew which roads to take to get to an enemy city far away, and where to stop to rest?

 

this type was also issued for Crispus

 

COOL!!! That's a reverse I don't recall seeing before!

 

Constantine I. AD 307/310-337. Æ Follis (19mm, 3.88 g, 7h). Thessalonica mint, 3rd officina. Struck AD 319. Laureate and cuirassed bust right / Plan of Roman camp; in the middle, Sol standing left, extending hand and holding globe; •TS•Γ•. RIC VII 66. Good VF, dark green




Constantine II. As Caesar, AD 316-337. Æ Follis (19mm, 2.64 g, 6h). Thessalonica mint, 2nd officina. Struck AD 319. Laureate and cuirassed bust right / Plan of Roman camp; in the middle, Sol standing left, extending hand and holding globe; •TS•B•. RIC VII 71. Near VF, green patina, a few scrapes on obverse. Rare.

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Great coin Pmonney

 

Thats cool

 

I'd like to hear more concerning the skepticism that this coin reverse shows a "plan of the camp." I agree with PMONNEY that this reverse type doesn't look much like a Roman camp, unless it's highly stylized. Attached is an image from << https://etc.usf.edu/clipart/79900/79923/79923_camp_lg.gif >> that shows the typical rectangular Roman camp, and it's fairly representative of a dozen or so images online. Doesn't look much like the coin reverse image. Does anyone know when the "camp plan" explanation became attached to the coin reverse, and why? Have there been significant doubters and alternate explanations?

 

There have been a number of arguments out there, I dont think a camp or road plan is logical. I have always thought they looked much more like fortifications than anything else. Anyone remember these:

 

here's a quote from a topic I wrote a few years ago about this reverse. I am cetainly not the first to speculate that it may be a statue...I believe that the earliest reference I saw to this was from Harold Mattingly.

"RIC describes the reverse of this coin as Sol in the middle of a Roman camp, but I have long been in doubt of that. The problem is that Roman camps seem to always be rectangular or square. I have seen many fanciful alternate ideas of what the reverse might represent, however it definitely has something to do with the army because of the reverse legend (VIRT EXERC) which translates to "Valor of the Army". I would also venture that it might be specific to the army in Thessalonica, as this type was only struck in that city. Constantine was also in residence in the city at the time (he stayed in Thessalonica for almost a year after his victory over Licinius), so that was probably also a reason for the special type, but it seems most definitely to be a type for the military. As to what it actually represents, we may never know. I suspect it might be a depiction of a statue or shrine that was favored by the military, set on some sort of pedestal in Thessalonica."

 

My thought exactly - would have been afraid of these though...

 

Here's another


The X design is specific in each case which may be a clue to what it represents. There are two pairs of long parallel lines which intersect in the middle with the left and right spaces filled in with a doubled >> (left) and << (right).

 

That's a nice example

 

Thinking out the box here, and I actually am just guessing. Since the inscription deals with the army could it be a 'pigs head' battle formation whereby the enemy is pinched between two of them and Sol is presiding over the whole thing? Found this as a reference.

 

I briefly thought of some kind of phalanx arrangement, but David's much more specific description is very attractive to me. At least I like it better than the camp plan.

 

The Romans were big Def Leppard fans:

 

More out of the box (uneducated) thinking here but could the doubled X in the center be related to the number 20 (XX)? I don't know of any other representation of Roman numerals where the representative letters were combined into a single design but who knows. If it is a 20, maybe it's connected to the Legio XX Valeria Vicrtix which was active in the 1st through 3rd centuries. Perhaps it's a commemoration of a particular battle or other event.

Of no relevance here, but a bit interesting is that the double crossed lines were used c.1865-1911 as a manufacturing mark by the Schierholz/Plaue pottery company of Thuringia Germany.

 

In his book Monumental Coins, Marvin Tameanko discusses how Roman celators were capable of mixing perspectives in a single reverse design. He illustrates a Titus, RIC 110, in which the Colosseum is shown from the front but also with a view inside it. He also illustrates a Philip I of Zeugma, Sear GIC 3954, which shows an aerial view of a temple with a front view of its statuary. These designs would support this crossed design as having mixed perspectives in the views of a statue and its base. Tameanko's discussion of the use of different perspectives is fascinating.

 

Here is that mixed perspective Zeugma temple.

 

Welcome @S. Porter