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<p>[QUOTE="akeady, post: 5145357, member: 83175"]<i>Perhaps there was a rule that the subtracting digit couldn't be first.</i></p><p><i>This Titus denarius has TR P IX but most of his have VIIII. Rule are made to be broken?</i></p><p><br /></p><p>Indeed - and this had a déja vue feeling as I knew I'd posted the calendar before and here it is - as a response to a post of yours featuring the same coin! From Seotember of 2018.</p><p><br /></p><p>ATB,</p><p>Aidan.</p><p><br /></p><ol> <li>The problem I pointed out in the first place is the turning of one way of expressing a number into the only way with any other variation being wrong. The Roman mint produced these two Titus coins from TRP 9. Sorry my elephant is worn but it reads TRP IX later in the same TRP year (1 July 79 - 30 June 80, I believe) but after the IMP XV and COS VIII (1 Jan 80) numbers had incremented. Why the change? IDK.<br /> <img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/rb1355fd1851-jpg.818218/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> <img src="https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/rb1370bb0192-jpg.818219/" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /><br /> <br /> <a href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/" rel="nofollow">http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/</a><br /> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/dougsmit.19463/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/dougsmit.19463/">dougsmit</a>, <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083">Sep 1, 2018</a><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/report" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/report">Report</a><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/best-answer" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/best-answer">Best Answer</a><br /> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083">#21</a><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/like" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/like">Like</a><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/reply?quote=3178083" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/reply?quote=3178083">+ QuoteReply</a><br /> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/johndakerftw.76543/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/johndakerftw.76543/">Johndakerftw</a> likes this.</li> <li><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/"><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/data/avatars/m/83/83175.jpg?1593653504" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a><br /> <a href="https://www.cointalk.com/moods/mood-chooser?redirect=%2Fthreads%2Fromans-fudging-their-math.322724%2Fpage-2" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/moods/mood-chooser?redirect=%2Fthreads%2Fromans-fudging-their-math.322724%2Fpage-2"><img src="https://www.cointalk.com/styles/default/xenmoods/Dreaming.png" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></a><br /> <font size="4"><b><a href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/" class="internalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/">akeady</a>Well-Known Member</b></font><br /> I agree with Doug's point, that rules referred to in other posts are modern efforts to standardise usage of Roman numerals, which were not followed by the Romans themselves.<br /> <br /> Here's a pic I took two weeks ago of the Fasti Praenestini from Rome's Palazzo Massimo - part of an early calendar by Verrius Flaccus, the tutor of Gaius & Lucius who would presumably have known his Roman numerals - <a href="http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/praenestini.html" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/praenestini.html" rel="nofollow">http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/praenestini.html</a><br /> <br /> 18 is consistently written here as XIIX - e.g. see the rightmost column. The subtraction rule isn't used here for numbers less than 18 - i.e. 4 = IIII, 8 = VIII, 9 = VIIII, 14 = XIIII; but is used for 18 & 19 - XIIX, XIX.<br /> <br /> <img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dc5g4pj3KIAyqK81weIh6CLvO-lhKCvY_XHgqXmmLe6K_qWMrU_u2CmxaAuNDJWxZAi0hkkeentRNzEwmTVRvn7xO5cy15o3peNbOQw0ttK8V7ank54gTFd7aEMnLQtWc5CqTubUqm92hxEJhDWKT3cMb77UwcqPGM316hEMZ_TtJ0yzR2t1iMlIBj6kC01GRjnYCIHe-bs7HjD225E8BYJ3VTOMEgbgoGkKX-qi0w4pBIqlbkCZqNZQXPCXAs3WwP-KO73ziiy-qWmDFweT5kpW1Dg_CD5Q90H61Yb7KsS-quSr_yHZoj67k_c-N44xbaQGSjhGO_ouq_0M3SCIQzv6Q3b0JZODn-_DUEdwVl2tUFBI7vVZzFn4OvhlnQ0Xa44r7Odu2fTOX3LysPfe_yxR3UBlaMt94p1aZOxMC3ARjrgOJVgOJZ74OZRb8Hj32kIDQJJSAy1Iuq9e19hYZ3eQTgXE0LWERZqbzHlHMj4ZiW9ROqr2ZaW0O70IF7IwcI6XK-QTeMAGVrYkbcasCBMPiR1jLnKXjkmvk5RgjyzsMEAq3EvLwhhK9Dq5e-mE6pse6i1On27qxC1IqjpE60tT7FGQDFac094JJHBERlz1rpbQLFQvDNZBRff0lez6hEYmo0WBgB7vTLp7rsZPQZKZ-hfNtcxoHwVIAtsDcAEZ7L-k2J2Iw4sfRQ=w1190-h578-no" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /><br /> <br /> Sorry - that was unreadable - here's a zoomed-in version of part of the rightmost column/month:<br /> <br /> <img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ma4yFbed45cC3ZmBWJdGUSNH1Angn5yiGFCJtisyv8in_cYvCxLlMZ69pQTkit4ZwMOUZ_Z8LBkV1Jfgs-o3ViKhG-VMJiy_kC8zz6ZuEKsfWjNMIjydkvtIn2SYXSDNh0xv2PwTAjw4Qfj7M97PzyBmnw835txucjNWQPtd08ixlZw7dKCDZWzmZ1oUsSAOKCjy8Ky6cbt5gmOOCOO5wRbmilHW3HM5DdLkiqs81HNBwK9KemC58JSpV3WeSYq4wFwEOPmfok04oevehcNoTY3G9ItnWRXN0sAihAueagq1oHXS4Gsu_kkCiaeFXmiFhcEP5nA6zB-T5pSNs6M0tPgJFHDsgGeFxAtFKv0MMF-W02WlUQHMFtrYzU1Ny8hjrFEJPdKUGGbDooNsUZtj6219k1K4V9qqkKQEYuRKOV7vNSPOST7eXLGyjIcfW-zP2tCI5OcPgC9VHHKHNxi6zuEnwCb7LFrs9PTvXV4uYKBJE1q3hpbC3xiIdGpa9p6aSBcpLBznwmO-CA44gUsVjX8i4XCZr4ROm9d19FMwPPx6ylOLNtWoRsy0VDe1sXthgh8JoFkgLuGfaS2zkNsXY2MgDyH8NWAP4X96fhvoafore-KRhjx9P3KYFKyb15PvTwooHIWfskSuVtaSGasz5wYJH8Rd4w1iVUG8ZK7XxUqfehIrcCz5Fbatgw=w563-h578-no" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /><br /> <br /> ATB,<br /> Aidan.<br /> </li> </ol><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="akeady, post: 5145357, member: 83175"][I]Perhaps there was a rule that the subtracting digit couldn't be first. This Titus denarius has TR P IX but most of his have VIIII. Rule are made to be broken?[/I] Indeed - and this had a déja vue feeling as I knew I'd posted the calendar before and here it is - as a response to a post of yours featuring the same coin! From Seotember of 2018. ATB, Aidan. [LIST=1] [*]The problem I pointed out in the first place is the turning of one way of expressing a number into the only way with any other variation being wrong. The Roman mint produced these two Titus coins from TRP 9. Sorry my elephant is worn but it reads TRP IX later in the same TRP year (1 July 79 - 30 June 80, I believe) but after the IMP XV and COS VIII (1 Jan 80) numbers had incremented. Why the change? IDK. [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/rb1355fd1851-jpg.818218/[/IMG] [IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/rb1370bb0192-jpg.818219/[/IMG] [URL]http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/[/URL] [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/members/dougsmit.19463/']dougsmit[/URL], [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083']Sep 1, 2018[/URL][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/report']Report[/URL][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/best-answer']Best Answer[/URL] [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/page-2#post-3178083']#21[/URL][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/posts/3178083/like']Like[/URL][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/threads/romans-fudging-their-math.322724/reply?quote=3178083']+ QuoteReply[/URL] [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/members/johndakerftw.76543/']Johndakerftw[/URL] likes this. [*][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/'][IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/data/avatars/m/83/83175.jpg?1593653504[/IMG][/URL] [URL='https://www.cointalk.com/moods/mood-chooser?redirect=%2Fthreads%2Fromans-fudging-their-math.322724%2Fpage-2'][IMG]https://www.cointalk.com/styles/default/xenmoods/Dreaming.png[/IMG][/URL] [SIZE=4][B][URL='https://www.cointalk.com/members/akeady.83175/']akeady[/URL]Well-Known Member[/B][/SIZE] I agree with Doug's point, that rules referred to in other posts are modern efforts to standardise usage of Roman numerals, which were not followed by the Romans themselves. Here's a pic I took two weeks ago of the Fasti Praenestini from Rome's Palazzo Massimo - part of an early calendar by Verrius Flaccus, the tutor of Gaius & Lucius who would presumably have known his Roman numerals - [URL]http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/calendar/praenestini.html[/URL] 18 is consistently written here as XIIX - e.g. see the rightmost column. The subtraction rule isn't used here for numbers less than 18 - i.e. 4 = IIII, 8 = VIII, 9 = VIIII, 14 = XIIII; but is used for 18 & 19 - XIIX, XIX. [IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/dc5g4pj3KIAyqK81weIh6CLvO-lhKCvY_XHgqXmmLe6K_qWMrU_u2CmxaAuNDJWxZAi0hkkeentRNzEwmTVRvn7xO5cy15o3peNbOQw0ttK8V7ank54gTFd7aEMnLQtWc5CqTubUqm92hxEJhDWKT3cMb77UwcqPGM316hEMZ_TtJ0yzR2t1iMlIBj6kC01GRjnYCIHe-bs7HjD225E8BYJ3VTOMEgbgoGkKX-qi0w4pBIqlbkCZqNZQXPCXAs3WwP-KO73ziiy-qWmDFweT5kpW1Dg_CD5Q90H61Yb7KsS-quSr_yHZoj67k_c-N44xbaQGSjhGO_ouq_0M3SCIQzv6Q3b0JZODn-_DUEdwVl2tUFBI7vVZzFn4OvhlnQ0Xa44r7Odu2fTOX3LysPfe_yxR3UBlaMt94p1aZOxMC3ARjrgOJVgOJZ74OZRb8Hj32kIDQJJSAy1Iuq9e19hYZ3eQTgXE0LWERZqbzHlHMj4ZiW9ROqr2ZaW0O70IF7IwcI6XK-QTeMAGVrYkbcasCBMPiR1jLnKXjkmvk5RgjyzsMEAq3EvLwhhK9Dq5e-mE6pse6i1On27qxC1IqjpE60tT7FGQDFac094JJHBERlz1rpbQLFQvDNZBRff0lez6hEYmo0WBgB7vTLp7rsZPQZKZ-hfNtcxoHwVIAtsDcAEZ7L-k2J2Iw4sfRQ=w1190-h578-no[/IMG] Sorry - that was unreadable - here's a zoomed-in version of part of the rightmost column/month: [IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ma4yFbed45cC3ZmBWJdGUSNH1Angn5yiGFCJtisyv8in_cYvCxLlMZ69pQTkit4ZwMOUZ_Z8LBkV1Jfgs-o3ViKhG-VMJiy_kC8zz6ZuEKsfWjNMIjydkvtIn2SYXSDNh0xv2PwTAjw4Qfj7M97PzyBmnw835txucjNWQPtd08ixlZw7dKCDZWzmZ1oUsSAOKCjy8Ky6cbt5gmOOCOO5wRbmilHW3HM5DdLkiqs81HNBwK9KemC58JSpV3WeSYq4wFwEOPmfok04oevehcNoTY3G9ItnWRXN0sAihAueagq1oHXS4Gsu_kkCiaeFXmiFhcEP5nA6zB-T5pSNs6M0tPgJFHDsgGeFxAtFKv0MMF-W02WlUQHMFtrYzU1Ny8hjrFEJPdKUGGbDooNsUZtj6219k1K4V9qqkKQEYuRKOV7vNSPOST7eXLGyjIcfW-zP2tCI5OcPgC9VHHKHNxi6zuEnwCb7LFrs9PTvXV4uYKBJE1q3hpbC3xiIdGpa9p6aSBcpLBznwmO-CA44gUsVjX8i4XCZr4ROm9d19FMwPPx6ylOLNtWoRsy0VDe1sXthgh8JoFkgLuGfaS2zkNsXY2MgDyH8NWAP4X96fhvoafore-KRhjx9P3KYFKyb15PvTwooHIWfskSuVtaSGasz5wYJH8Rd4w1iVUG8ZK7XxUqfehIrcCz5Fbatgw=w563-h578-no[/IMG] ATB, Aidan. [/LIST][/QUOTE]
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