My rarest Knife... Ancient Chinese Boshan Knife

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Loong Siew, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Ancient China. Warring states period. Qi Ming (Boshan) Knife. State of Yan 燕 under Qi 齐 control.

    4 character inscription "莒治大匕"。Hartill 4.51.

    One of the top 50 Chinese ancient rarities 古钱五十珍, these were first unearthed during the reign of the Qing Emperor Jiaqing around the 18th century around Boshan in Shandong province thus the name. The inscriptions were subjected to debate as they were not really fully deciphered or understood. In addition the inscriptions are varied with some 3 to 4 characters. The source of these coins were subjected to speculation as they appeared to be closely resemble the more common Ming knives but with a distinct Ming character design.

    Numismatists commonly came to the consensus that these were probably minted during a very brief period where the area was under Qi state administration before it was reclaimed under the Yan state. It's brief period, quantity and area of issuance made it one of the rarest coins (knife or otherwise) in ancient China thus giving it the honor of being the 3rd of the 50 rarities in Chinese numismatics.

    This Boshan variant falls into the 4 character style. Although speculative, the inscription seems to mean "Issued by the city of Ju 莒"。

    20180111_223654.jpg
     
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  3. JAY-AR

    JAY-AR Well-Known Member

    Pretty awesome stuff!
     
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  4. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Thank you.. pretty proud of this piece
     
  5. TheRed

    TheRed Well-Known Member

    Congrats on such a rare knife @Loong Siew it sounds like quite the 'crown jewel' to have in your collection. I find these knife coins fascinating, but am largely ignorant of ancient Chinese history.
     
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  6. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Thank you @TheRed ... These knife coins largely circulated around Northeast of the Yellow River. That time was a feudal nation with various various autonomous states loosely aligned to the Zhou Dynasty. Each state and area has their own designs with some opting for spades, knives and even round coins.. only until the unification of China under the First Emperor of Qin that a uniform system existed across many aspects of government and society including coinage.
     
  7. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Well done @Loong Siew ! Very nice knife, and a cool piece of history... I really like the rarity. Nice patina and really looks in great shape. How long is it? My knife fits on the line-drawings in my Hartill book, so I assume it is the same with yours? I want one!
     
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  8. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Alegandron . It is 147x9 mm. Not a very big knife and weighs approximately 14g.
     
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  9. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Perhaps @Alegandron you can upload your knife here as well?
     
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    It is pretty rough, and a terrible pic. But, I got myself a "common" one.

    China Ming Knife money 400-220 BCE bronze Hartill 4.42-3.jpg
    China Ming Knife money 400-220 BCE bronze Hartill 4.42-3
     
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  11. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    It's in pretty good condition for type.. . Strong solid malachite patina..
     
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  12. AnYangMan

    AnYangMan Well-Known Member

    Hey! I recognise that exact knife! You must have bought it from Belgium, right? Or did it pass through multiple hands before reaching you? I helped the previous owner get it, a bit sad he already sold it, but glad it ended up in the collection of someone who will truly appreciate it! If you want, I have a bit more provenance to it ;). Do you have the XRF data for example?

    That being said, it’s absolutely gorgeous @Loong Siew! And even though the Boshan knives (except the multi-character obverse ones, like yours) are slightly less rare than they used to be, you still definitely don’t see them every day. While I am somewhat sceptical of the theory presented in Hartill and related literature, these knives do form a perfect hybrid between the Ming- and Qi- knives. The problem is that some still mention the Qi-state on their reverse. The period that is referred to in Hartill is the Yan invasion of Qi-territory, not the other way around. It started in 300 BC, with the rule of king Min of Qi. The Histories tell us that he was apparently deemed a very inept and incompetent ruler, who executed those that criticised him and his plans on sight. In 286 BC he thought up a brilliant plan. Well …uh.., at least he himself thought it was brilliant. He attacked and annexed the small state of Song. Surprisingly, his plan actually worked, and Song was no more after his invasion. He decided it was to be his year and attacked the armies of the larger state of Chu as well. Somehow this also worked.

    But there was a giant pitfall. His army became exhausted and thin-spread across his newly conquered regions. King Zhao, of the northerly situated Yan state, a far more competent ruler, saw this and devised a masterplan. His armies would quickly advance without any opposition into Qi territory and once and for all destroy the state of Qi. King Min and his armies had to withdraw from their newly conquered territories to save what was left of their initial state, leaving the land they gained in the expedition to be reclaimed by the Chu state. They raced back to Qi-lands, but failed to do so in time. Their capital city of Linzi had already been sacked and in the end, only two cities remained under their control: Jimo (famous for issuing the four character Qi-knife) and Lu (if the reading of your coin is correct, the city where it was minted!).

    King Min died in 284 BC. How exactly this happened is unknown to us, but most histories mention that the ‘severely unhappy’ Qi-generals executed him for his incompetence somewhere in the city of Lu (where this knife was most likely minted!). Anyway, after the death of king Min in 284 BC, the great reconquering could begin. But firstly, they had to repel the advancing Yan army, set on destroying the Qi state once and for all. The battle that followed is arguably one of the most well-known battles of the warring states era: the Siege of Jimo in 279 BC. Not famous for its size or its many heroes, but rather for the unorthodox tactic employed by the Qi general Tian Dan.

    He waited till darkness fell upon the camp of the Yan-soldiers that laid siege to the city. The day before, several of his troops had dug passages underneath the city walls, and had assembled more than a thousand oxen roaming the city. Then he had his men dress these oxen in brightly coloured silk, attach sharp daggers to their head and put burning twigs on their tail. That night he had his man drive these oxen, now somewhat resembling dragons, underneath these passages and charge into the Yan encampment. At the same time the citizens in the besieged city would shout, drum and hit cauldrons, creating a thundering and ear-deafening noise. Naturally, this created a panic and the Yan soldiers were completely overrun, their general killed. The Qi army, now under the command of Tian Dan, would continue to advance until all the seventy cities they lost to Yan in the previous seven years were returned to their state. (Naturally, there has been some debate amongst scholars about the truthfulness of this account. I don’t blame them...)

    So how would these knives fit into this history? Traditionally, they been attributed to Yan in the Qi-territory that got conquered and was occupied between 284 and 279 BC, mainly on the basis of the Boshan Ming-knives. But this theory, in my opinion, has two major flaws. Firstly, Boshan Ming knives have more than a few reverses. The majority remain undeciphered, but some are very similar in design to the obverse of the bigger three and four character knives. They mention that the coin in question is ‘Qi-legal currency’, quite an impressive indicator for their caster: the Qi state. Secondly, well, this coin. As said, Ju was not conquered by Yan! So if the reading of this knife is indeed correct, they can’t have been issued by Yan and must have been issued by Qi.

    But why would Qi issue Ming-knives, the main currency of a state with which they were at war? Tribute? But if this is the case, why such an extensive series? Knives from all sizes and shapes are known. @TypeCoin971793 for example has a tiny example, possibly even a funeral specimen. And why the large variation of inscriptions? And does that explain the find locations? They have since been excavated in both Shandong and Hebei province, which would indicate a further spread then initially thought, but I don’t have exact locations or a size of the ‘hoards’ excavated. So many questions, so little answers ;).

    So without any additional evidence, I am a little sceptical of this theory. They obviously relate to some sort of Yan – Qi interaction, and the events between 284 and 179 BC could very well fit the bill. But so would interstate trade, right? A fascinating series to say the least, hopefully further archaeological research will gives us a little insight in the matter. That being said, let me just congratulate you on the excellent purchase once again! Truly a numismatic treasure. To finish my post: My humble example, a Boshan Ming knife, with no clearly legible reverse. The character has been tooled a little to stand out and the tip is broken, but I got I cheaply as a result:

    rotat.jpg
     
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  13. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Wow!! Thanks for the provenance @AnYangMan . Yes i got it directly from Belgium. I know him personally and when I saw it was on sale, i decided to take up his offer.

    According to Chinese sources though, it was possible that these were interregnum pieces when Qi soldiers were stationed on Yan state for awhile. Though it was possibly invaded, they eventually regained autonomy thus the limited issuance of these specimens. The theory of trade is possible but why issue an imitative currency to trade instead of just barter goods?
     
  14. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    One word: wow. That is a dream specimen for me. Well done!

    Is that the same one I am thinking of? If so, I really which I had the chance to buy it. :(

    First off, wonderful historical analysis. I really enjoyed it.

    So you are thinking they had something kinda like the Euro system today? But the Qi state does not seem like the most amiable partner to have a shared currency with. Maybe it was a region of the Qi that acted on their own initiative, and it was squashed by the king of Qi when he found out about it. That could be an explanation as to their rarity. But that is completely conjecture.
     
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  15. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

  16. mrbreeze

    mrbreeze Well-Known Member

    I don't collect the knives or other non cash type money, but I do have some knives, bridges, etc. Here is what I think is my most unique knife. I've never really paid that much attention to it until this thread.


    image.jpg

    image.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  17. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    Nice piece @mrbreeze ..yours is a Ming knife. A more widely circulated form of the knife money.
     
  18. AnYangMan

    AnYangMan Well-Known Member

    Yep, it’s from that one collection you are thinking of. You know the one ;). I have also had a fair bit of contact with ‘the Belgian’ and I showed him some of the coins I had bought from this collection right about when we first had contact. He asked if something else, this knife, was for sale and I put him in contact with that collector. Sorry Thomas! But don’t worry, you’ll get your chance. This Saturday, in fact ;).

    The one thing I base this statement off, is the fact that to me they seem to have been cast with the intent to circulate within the Yan, Ming-knife-based, economy. Some early types in particular have the characteristic 'broad/curved' shape some Ming knives also have (see: this one). I don’t think they would have circulated within Qi itself, but instead were used by Qi soldiers or traders within Yan-territory. But this is nothing but pure speculation. A partial parallel would be the straight knives of Zhao. While these definitely also had a circulatory-purpose within their own state, it is far more common to find them amongst Ming knives than amongst Zhao-state spades; they have thus been interpreted as evidence for interstate trade between Zhao and Yan. But then again, Straight knives are far more common than Boshan-knives. The theory proposed by Loong Siew is also definitely a possibility, which would account for most things: Qi-state currency, used for circulation in an area used to Ming-knives and within a limited time span. It would also account for the Boshan hoard: this area is right in the middle of what would have been the Qi-Yan border in the late Warring States.

    Not satisfied with just guessing, I decided to do some digging (not literally, although that would have been cool). In Chinese numismatics, there is often a disconnect between the published numismatic works (especially the works published in the Western languages) and the archaeological record. One amazing thing I came across was a excavation publication from 1994:

    moulds.png

    Wait a minute, those are moulds for ….. Boshan knives! In April 1978 these were discovered while excavating in Juxian; 64 partial and 12 complete moulds were found, all belonging to the different categories of Boshan knives. About a year later, in 1979, some local farmers from the same area found a couple of additional moulds while preparing their fields: One of the fragments is particularly exciting:

    knif.jpg

    This mould would have been used to cast a specific type of Boshan knife: those naming the city of Ju on their reverse – Loong Siew’s coin! Or at least the same series. While some of the complete moulds were neatly stacked, thus allowing for the identification of the two different halves of the complete mould, these fragments were simply littered throughout the site. So we won’t be sure whether these would have had the Boshan/Angular-style Ming on the obverse, or whether they would have had a plain obverse, like on the coin here. Anyway, this is quite the find. Particularly because of their location: Juxian is a modern day prefecture, which gets its name from an ancient city located within its territory. You’ve guessed it: Ju! That’s right, these moulds were found within the outskirts of the ancient city of Ju mentioned in the histories. The same city whose name we thought might be listed on the reverse. In addition to just moulds, a large amount of copper/bronze casting debris was found, as well as smelting pots and kilns for terracotta (presumably the moulds), proving the presence of a mint producing Boshan knives.

    In my opinion, a few new things have become clear from this find:

    1. We can semi-confirm the reading of Lu. Deciphering archaic Chinese characters sure isn’t easy, let alone those on the reverse of these Boshan knives, which were exceptionally weak/in low relief. The reading of Ju had been proposed way back, before these moulds were found, but remained nothing more than a speculation. Finding these moulds has strengthened this reading by a whole lot in my opinion.

    2. Since these (and only these, no other moulds were found) were found at a single mint, I believe the entire series of Boshan-knives should indeed be regarded as one series, most likely issued in emergency. Some have speculated that the type with just an angular variety of Ming were cast some place else, when compared to the Ju-types. This excavated mint has both types however, proving they were cast somewhat contemporary in the same mint and should thus be regarded as a single series.

    3. Definitive proof that they were issued by Qi-kingdom. While this was already largely accepted on the basis of the reverse inscription of some Boshan knives, those explicitly mentioning the Qi-state, it can now be said with a relative degree of certainty. Ju was in the Qi-heartlands, and was only conquered later by the well-known Qin Shi Huangdi. Yan never got this far into Qi territory: it thus has to be a Qi-cast.

    4. Since we now have an exact location of the mint, I think we can say that these would most likely not have had the purpose of circulating within Yan-territory under Qi-occupation. As far as we know, this mint was specifically instated for minting these knives in or around Ju. If these were minted for local circulation around the border-area conquered by Qi, would these not have been locally cast, instead of a newly set-up mint a few hundred miles away from this border?

    5. Ju, while it certainly wasn’t a small city, was only a minor city of Qi, falling well within the shadow of Linzi and Jimo. I would argue that it isn’t fairly likely that these were cast while both mints were still making coins for Qi. Combine this with the fact that the historical sources state that Ju was one of the two cities not conquered by Yan, and I am starting to lean towards them indeed being issued somewhere within the 284-279 BC invasion. I would now say I find the theory proposed by Wang Qing to be the most likely. He states that these were cast in Ju during this period, with the intent to facilitate the buying of goods from Yan or Yan-occupied-Qi (the occupied area was also forced to pay with Ming knives, according to him). After all, Qi only possessed two cities in this period and would not have been able to produce all goods necessary.

    There is however one big question left to answer: was this the only mint responsible for minting Boshan-knives? With many of the spade types we can sort of confirm that they were: the coins themselves often show the name of the mint itself, and you would assume that each city would have used only their own name on coins. But with these, the Boshan knives with no or only ‘generic’ reverses, this remains debatable. If we could only answer this question…

    It has been said a few times already, but I’ll say it again: congratulations on this amazing and rare knife; truly something to treasure and the highlight of any archaic Chinese collection!

    Kind regards,

    Mika

    PS. Sorry for the long post guys, it's just a really neat type ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
  19. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    @AnYangMan and @Loong Siew I found a pretty good deal on canada numis mall. and wanted to share and know your opinion on it. It seems comes from an old collection back in 1940s and donated to the princeton university and ended up in CNG. Also I am thinking to get 3 more coins from the canada numis mall one from Tang, Sui and Three kingdom periods. I like to know your opinion on these too please. I am looking forward for your valuable opinion.

    http://www.numismall.com/acc/1850-1...e-Long-Life-small-amulet-Empire-of-China.html

    http://www.numismall.com/acc/581-61...AD-Empire-of-China-Hartill-10.26-w386421.html

    http://www.numismall.com/acc/621-71...-AD-Empire-of-China-Hartill-14.1-w422321.html

    http://www.numismall.com/acc/238-25...hree-Kingdoms-period-China-Hartill-11.33.html


    Best Regards
    Arash
     
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  20. Loong Siew

    Loong Siew Well-Known Member

    numismall is owned by Alexander Fishman. he is an authority on Indian coins but less so on Chinese ones. nonetheless his pieces are genuine albeit with a premium.
     
  21. arashpour

    arashpour Well-Known Member

    @Loong Siew Thanks for opinion . I'm more interested in 12 piece from 1940s collection. I think most fakes made 1980 after and chance of fake Chinese bronze coins made in 1940s is slim. please correct me if I'm wrong
     
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