My newest acquisition-Temple question.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gary R. Wilson, Feb 6, 2020.

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Trajan sestertius temple with no porticos-Temple of Honos or the Temple of Venus Genetrix ?

  1. Honos

    85.7%
  2. Venus Genetrix

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Other

    14.3%
  1. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    Hi all, I just won this Trajan sestertius from the Roma auction just concluded. There are differences of opinion as to which temple this reverse represents, Honos or Venus Genetrix.

    Trajan Æ Sestertius. Rome, AD 104-111.jpg

    Trajan (Augustus)
    Coin: Brass Sestertius
    IMP CAES NERVAE TRAIANO AVG GER DAC P M TR P COS V P P - Laureate bust right, drapery on far shoulder.
    S P Q R OPTIMO PRINCIPI - Octastyle temple of Honos, Venus standing within; [Jupiter seated facing] on pediment, [flanked by smaller reclining figures]; five statues on roof; SC in exergue.
    Exergue: SC


    Mint: Rome (104-111 AD)
    Wt./Size/Axis: 24.46g / 34mm / 6h
    References:
    RIC 575
    BMCRE 859
    C. 552
    Woytek 302b
    Provenances:
    Roma Numismatics
    Acquisition/Sale: Roma Numismatics Internet E-Sale 67 #824 $0.00 02/20
    Notes: Feb 5, 20 - The Gary R. Wilson Collection

    Above is a poll I hope others will vote on. My vote is Honos, Roma thinks maybe Venus Genetrix.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  4. 7Calbrey

    7Calbrey Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I have a similar temple, but with another Emperor. Provincial.

    S OctasTep O.JPG StairTemp R    Octa.JPG
     
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    If it is the temple of Honos would not the figure inside be the goddess Virtus?
     
    Gary R. Wilson likes this.
  6. Ancient Aussie

    Ancient Aussie Well-Known Member

    Great coin Gary, congrats. I think honos but who knows, I have the Dupondius of this type, it is said that stance of the statue is more like earlier coin issues of Honos.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    From what I have read, there were twin temples, one to Honos (honor) and one to Virtus at the same area,the Porta Capena Via Appia. Here is a nice article concerning the Temple of Honos: https://coinsweekly.com/a-temple-for-honos/
     
  8. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    Great coin Aussie. I wish I could see the statue better on my coin.
     
    Ancient Aussie likes this.
  9. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    I am not convinced there is an example of your coin in the British Museum collection. Unfortunately, the British Museum search function is down, but looking at BMCRE3, pl. 32.7 (BMC 859), I'm quite sure that's not your coin. The museum has several examples, BMCRE3 857-862, which have either unclear details or differ in the postures and attributes of the figures on the roof and inside the temple. I'm not even sure your coin has five figures on the roof as described in the BMC listings.

    Mattingly does not postulate the identity of the temple, though he does say that Cohen's attribution to Jupiter is in error.

    Tameanko does not discuss this coin, nor the Temple of Honos, in Monumental Coins.

    Sorry I was not more helpful.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2020
    Curtis, 7Calbrey and Gary R. Wilson like this.
  10. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    Thanks for the feedback. It sure seems like this is a mystery Temple.
     
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  11. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    Got this coin last year Trajan Sestertius RIC 575 Woytek 302 bD This coin illustrated. Photo by W. HansenThe reverse figure standing within the temple appears to be male though carrying a cornucopia. trajans29.jpg One can see this deity on the reverse of the much more common denarii of Marcus as Caesar RIC 429a maureliusd2.JPG
     
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  12. gogili1977

    gogili1977 Well-Known Member

    Worn Pius sestertius with temple
    image.jpg
     
  13. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    Here is my Vespasian Copper as Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus Capitolinus NRCV 2363. VespA.JPG VespB.JPG

    This is followed by an Augustus Denarius that I attribute as RSC 84. Both coins have interesting architecture.

    OctA.JPG OctB.JPG
     
  14. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    Dafydd and Ancient Aussie like this.
  15. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    Thank you Gary
    The rebuild is very impressive.......... :happy:
    Seriously though, I couldn't find the second image online and wondered if you would share with us where you found it?
    I've picked up a lot from this thread including the link to Tantalus coins and have ordered a copy of Mr Tameanko's book. It's sometimes amazing how one thread can send you on a tangent you had not considered before.
     
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  16. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    I found the image from Google images searching "Augustus Arch Rome". You mentioned Tantalus and I have my collection there under :
    http://www.tantaluscoins.com/browse.php?uname=Gary R. Wilson
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  17. Dafydd

    Dafydd Well-Known Member

    Thank you Gary, I tried that but included "Parthian" in the search and missed this one.
    I really admire the way you have included images with your collection, very impressive.
     
    Roman Collector likes this.
  18. Gary R. Wilson

    Gary R. Wilson ODERINT, DUM METUANT — CALIGULA

    Thank you for the compliment. I do enjoy linking different images with coins. It seems to bring the coins more "alive".
     
  19. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    Bringing up this old post because a while back I got an As of Trajan showing the temple and I was stuck on the Honos/Pax theories as outlined in this post. A chance discovery in a book I'm reading brought up another possibility: what about the Temple of the Deified Nerva? A very interesting work by Mary Taliferro Boatwright makes the case for this (the quote starts off referencing another Trajan temple series with a seated figure, which she discusses pp. 88-89):

    "If the seated statue is to be identified as male (in the coins dated 105-107 A.D.), it is possible that Trajan did begin a temple here to honor Nerva. But given the time lag between the coin issues and the actual dedication of the temple by Hadrian, and the fact that the temple was dedicated to Trajan and Plotina without Nerva, it would be more plausible to assume that a different Trajanic series struck ca. 105-108, showing a standing male figure in an unidentified temple, depicts the otherwise unattested Temple of the Deified Nerva (footnote: BMC Emp. III, nos. 955-58). In addition to chronological arguments against assuming that the Temple was first destined for Trajan's deified blood father, we note again that there is no evidence that a temple ever honored this individual." Mary Taliaferro Boatwright, Hadrian and the City of Rome, (p. 92)

    Heck if I know, but it is an interesting theory that I've seen nowhere else. Perhaps a high-grade example will emerge showing the figure in the temple with a very large, beaky nose? Here's my low-grade example:

    Trajan - As Temple June 2020 (0).jpg
    Trajan Æ As
    (103-111 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    [IMP CAES NERVAE TRAI]ANO AVG GER DAC PM [TR P COS V P P], laureate head right, drapery on left shoulder / [SPQR OPTIMO] PRINCIPI, SC in exergue, Pax (Honos? Nerva?) standing within octastyle temple.
    RIC II 575; BMCRE 955.
    (8.82 grams / 25 x 24 mm)
    eBay June 2020

    Even if you disagree with her Nerva theory, I highly recommend Boatwright's book in general; it is very readable yet very scholarly (including extensive numismatic references; I don't do justice to her footnote in the quote above).

    https://www.amazon.com/Hadrian-City-Rome-Mary-Boatwright/dp/0691002185
     
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