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My issue with TPGs red-brown (RB) designation on copper coins
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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 7806858, member: 112"]For the most part, the special designations, and I do mean all of them, are nothing more than gimmicks. Or, to use another phrase, advertising hype.</p><p><br /></p><p>Granted, their so called purpose is to better describe the condition of the coin, with "better" really being the key idea. For example, using the copper designations, Red is best, Brown is worst, and Red Brown is, well, better than Brown but not as good as Red. </p><p><br /></p><p>The reason the special designations came about, and make no mistake they came about long before the TPGs ever existed so the TPGs can't be blamed for their existence, was because pretty much everybody (collectors and dealers alike) wants "their coin" to be special, to somehow be "better" than the other guy's coin. And if their coin is "better" then it should sell for more - right ? Short and sweet, that's what it's all about - money, and or bragging rights. And it's true of all the special designations. </p><p><br /></p><p>But here's the thing, the question that one must ask oneself - are the special designations really accurate methods of describing the coin ? I mean that's what their purpose is supposed to be - they are supposed to provide a better, read as more precise, description of the coin. </p><p><br /></p><p>Again, take the RD, RB, BN designations. The question was asked above, is Red really red ? And understand, the very definition of Red is defined as original mint red, and original mint red is a very distinctive and specific color - and everybody here knows exactly what it looks like. Answer, yeah, sometimes it is. But many, many other times, no, it isn't red at all - it's toned, and a good bit darker in color than original mint red. But yet it's still called Red. And if it's toned, then why isn't it called Red Brown ? Answer, because of it was then hardly anybody would ever have an actual original mint red coin. And if the vast majority never had one, then they wouldn't be happy about it because their coin would no longer be "special" - better than the other guy's.</p><p><br /></p><p>Another example would the FS designation, Full Steps, for nickels. Its purpose was to define a coin that was especially well struck. Well, little could ever be farther from the truth than that ! But, given the standards of the designation, it often is a difficult designation to meet. In point of fact, it was found to be too difficult at times - and hardly anybody was getting the designation on their coins. So what did they do, what was the answer to this dilemma ? Why change the standards and make it easier to meet the designation. Stop requiring all 6 steps to be full and and unbroken and only 5 - then maybe more collectors and dealers could have their coin get the special designation - and everybody would be happy ! So that's what they did.</p><p><br /></p><p>Now that alone, loosening the requirements, you should tell you that, to borrow an old phrase - something's rotten in Denmark ! But if that's not bad enough, consider the special designation itself. Its purpose is to define an especially well struck coin. Thing is, the vast majority of coins that are given the designation - have terrible strikes ! Oh the steps may be there, even all 6 of them, complete and unbroken, but the rest of the Monticello building - Ha ! - good parts of it may be completely missing ! And yet it'll still get the special designation ! </p><p><br /></p><p>So I ask you, how can parts of the building, the details, be completely missing and yet that coin be considered to be an especially well struck coin ? Doesn't the definition of an especially well struck coin mean that all the details are there ? That's sure what it means to me, and I'm pretty sure that's what it means to just about everybody else too. So why then ?</p><p><br /></p><p>Some may argue that especially well struck doesn't mean fully struck. Well OK, I can buy that. But especially well struck is gonna be pretty dang close to it. It better be, or it's simply not especially well struck. You can't have a coin where the handrails are missing, the lines in the gables are missing, maybe a window or two is missing, and still call that coin and especially well struck coin ! Yeah, the steps may be there, but if everything else is missing then it's flat out a weakly struck coin - by any definition ! </p><p><br /></p><p>The same kind of thing is true of all the special designations, with one possible exception - CAM and DCAM. With those, it's pretty hard to make a bad call on those because they either are or they're not. The cameo effect is there or it isn't. But all the rest - gimmicks, hype. And sadly, the reality is that's all they are. And they equal money and or bragging rights. </p><p><br /></p><p>I suppose a lot of people aren't gonna like me saying that but it's kinda hard to argue with I think. Of course I have no doubt there are those whose opinions do vary.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 7806858, member: 112"]For the most part, the special designations, and I do mean all of them, are nothing more than gimmicks. Or, to use another phrase, advertising hype. Granted, their so called purpose is to better describe the condition of the coin, with "better" really being the key idea. For example, using the copper designations, Red is best, Brown is worst, and Red Brown is, well, better than Brown but not as good as Red. The reason the special designations came about, and make no mistake they came about long before the TPGs ever existed so the TPGs can't be blamed for their existence, was because pretty much everybody (collectors and dealers alike) wants "their coin" to be special, to somehow be "better" than the other guy's coin. And if their coin is "better" then it should sell for more - right ? Short and sweet, that's what it's all about - money, and or bragging rights. And it's true of all the special designations. But here's the thing, the question that one must ask oneself - are the special designations really accurate methods of describing the coin ? I mean that's what their purpose is supposed to be - they are supposed to provide a better, read as more precise, description of the coin. Again, take the RD, RB, BN designations. The question was asked above, is Red really red ? And understand, the very definition of Red is defined as original mint red, and original mint red is a very distinctive and specific color - and everybody here knows exactly what it looks like. Answer, yeah, sometimes it is. But many, many other times, no, it isn't red at all - it's toned, and a good bit darker in color than original mint red. But yet it's still called Red. And if it's toned, then why isn't it called Red Brown ? Answer, because of it was then hardly anybody would ever have an actual original mint red coin. And if the vast majority never had one, then they wouldn't be happy about it because their coin would no longer be "special" - better than the other guy's. Another example would the FS designation, Full Steps, for nickels. Its purpose was to define a coin that was especially well struck. Well, little could ever be farther from the truth than that ! But, given the standards of the designation, it often is a difficult designation to meet. In point of fact, it was found to be too difficult at times - and hardly anybody was getting the designation on their coins. So what did they do, what was the answer to this dilemma ? Why change the standards and make it easier to meet the designation. Stop requiring all 6 steps to be full and and unbroken and only 5 - then maybe more collectors and dealers could have their coin get the special designation - and everybody would be happy ! So that's what they did. Now that alone, loosening the requirements, you should tell you that, to borrow an old phrase - something's rotten in Denmark ! But if that's not bad enough, consider the special designation itself. Its purpose is to define an especially well struck coin. Thing is, the vast majority of coins that are given the designation - have terrible strikes ! Oh the steps may be there, even all 6 of them, complete and unbroken, but the rest of the Monticello building - Ha ! - good parts of it may be completely missing ! And yet it'll still get the special designation ! So I ask you, how can parts of the building, the details, be completely missing and yet that coin be considered to be an especially well struck coin ? Doesn't the definition of an especially well struck coin mean that all the details are there ? That's sure what it means to me, and I'm pretty sure that's what it means to just about everybody else too. So why then ? Some may argue that especially well struck doesn't mean fully struck. Well OK, I can buy that. But especially well struck is gonna be pretty dang close to it. It better be, or it's simply not especially well struck. You can't have a coin where the handrails are missing, the lines in the gables are missing, maybe a window or two is missing, and still call that coin and especially well struck coin ! Yeah, the steps may be there, but if everything else is missing then it's flat out a weakly struck coin - by any definition ! The same kind of thing is true of all the special designations, with one possible exception - CAM and DCAM. With those, it's pretty hard to make a bad call on those because they either are or they're not. The cameo effect is there or it isn't. But all the rest - gimmicks, hype. And sadly, the reality is that's all they are. And they equal money and or bragging rights. I suppose a lot of people aren't gonna like me saying that but it's kinda hard to argue with I think. Of course I have no doubt there are those whose opinions do vary.[/QUOTE]
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My issue with TPGs red-brown (RB) designation on copper coins
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