My friend cleans every coin, what do I do?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ahardy17, Oct 16, 2006.

  1. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Mysticism and Tyrants

    With only 26 posts, this doesn't surprise me at all.
    All of the posters in this thread. DUH!
    There is nothing "most generally accepted" in this hobby.
    What SHOULD be respected is an individuals right to collect any way he wishes without being ridiculed in a forum that he is probably entirely unaware of. And how is all of your "sage" advice going to help someone if they don't even know it exists? None of you are "righting any wrong" despite your lengthy diatribes but you do come off as holier than thou.

    If he was in a car, how would he hear me? :goofer:
     
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  3. Captainkirk

    Captainkirk 73 Buick Riviera owner

    Confesssion - When I used to get bags of 5000 wheats to look through, they were often coated with a kind of dust-dirt that I would gently wipe with a soft cotton rag. These were mostly heavily circulated coins, and it really improved the coin, I thought. They weren't "polished' just lightly wiped to remove dust. Is this a bad thing?
     
  4. ranchhand

    ranchhand Coin Hoarder

    By that logic then someone could purchase a Rembrandt and then paint over it, who are we to admonish the guy? he owns the painting, he can do what he wants.
    Now their is nothing illegal about what the guy is doing, but it's really not a good way to "invest", and it also ruins a piece of art for future generations.
    I have always held the idea that I am a custodian for my coins, and I try to protect them for their future owners.
    What this guy is doing may not necessarily be wrong, but it is a bad idea, and one that he will pay for. If he is educated about what it is he is doing, and still decides to do it, then his problem. I wouldn;t ever purchase or sell a coin to him though.
     
  5. Indianhead65

    Indianhead65 Well-Known Member

    I knew from day one as a collector not to clean coins that it would bring down their value tremendously. In fact, there is a right and wrong way to collect coins, especially if you're doing it for investment purposes. Knowing not to clean your coins is just general knowledge and as far as I'm concerned its the number 1 dont in coin collecting. I dont see anyone in here trying to be high and mighty. This is a forum to help all collectors new and old, whether their cleaning their coins or not and hopefully stop the ones who are before they take the brillo pad over their 09-s vdb.
     
  6. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    Moen,

    As usual, there is a nugget of wisdom in your thoughts. Collecting is, after all, a subjective endeavour. Cleaning used to be okay. Now it is forbidden. What will be considered acceptable in 30 years? Nobody knows. The present set of collecting rules is admittedly a bit anal-retentive with rules that everybody knows and accepts but in the end might not really be that important to many people other than the fact that it has been drilled into them that they are important. I think this guy is making a low probability bet that he'll be able to retire using his current methods, but the collection itself might still be interesting and provide a lot of personal satisfaction. If he is collecting MS grade coins, they are ruined to the extent that luster is a grading factor. If they are circulated coins to begin with, the average VF coin has probably seen worse during its lifetime than what a cleaning will do to it. I think rarity is more important than condition, and that most collectors overpay for 'conditional rarity.' There is a lot of scope for new ideas in the hobby, but it's very tough to change people's habits.
     
  7. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    On day one I automatically assumed that older coins were worth more than newer coins regardless of condition, and I cleaned some coins with a pencil eraser. I still can't get myself to dislike cleaned coins if I can buy them at cleaned coin prices, although I have at least broken the habit of cleaning them myself. So I'm semi-housebroken.:rolleyes:
     
  8. skm06

    skm06 Member

    Nice rebuttal Moen,
    While the cleaning of coins is considered wrong now, it may not be in the future. Helping someone out by advising them not to clean their coins is a good thing, but disrespect isn't helping anyone.
    There were some posts here stating the guy's mentally retarded, a lame brain, stupid, etc.. There's no need of that.
    If he is happy with his coins cleaned, so be it, they are his coins.
     
  9. Vroomer2

    Vroomer2 Active Member

    I haven't washed my cars in 2 months. :D
     
  10. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    Vroomer.

    Just make sure you shower. It won't decrease your value.
     
  11. andrew289

    andrew289 Senior Analyst

    Sure it is. If you just fell off the short bus.:high5:

    First - Yes, I have 26 posts. I am new to this site but I have read through pages upon pages of posts. I have read enough to know that you blow a lot of smoke and are not to be taken seriously.

    Second - Who are we? was a rhetorical question...but you answered it anyway. Dictionary.com is a site that you might find useful.

    Third - The "right to collect" is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights. Collecting is a privilege not a right.

    Fourth - If you had bothered to read the previous posts, you would know that the posters were not giving advice to the poor misguided fellow, obviously. They were appealing to his friend (the original poster) to enlighten his friend about the error of his ways. It's that simple.

    I could really care less if the cleans his coins down to bald planchets. The point is that he should be told about the economic effects that are the direct result of the damage that he is doing. If he doesn't care...oh, well.

    It is far better to try and fail and never to have tried at all.
     
  12. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Mysticism and Tyrants

    Well, I didn't intend for this to turn into a pi$$ing contest so I will leave it at- You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't need the last word on the subject nor are my comments posted solely in opposition to yours. We both collect coins and neither of us clean them. At least we are on the same page there.

    I still believe if this guy wants to collect coins and clean them, it's his business, not mine. Enough said! :hug:
     
  13. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    This is completely off topic, but the above statement is completely false. The Constitution is a collection of defined powers delegated by the states and the people to the federal government [there are 18 if them, can you list them?] . A few of the Founding Fathers didn't like the idea of including a Bill of Rights in the Constitution because they feared that someday it would be interpreted as a complete list of rights granted by the government to the people. But most other people believed that American citizens would never become so stupid and uneducated that they would believe that, and thought the list would be useful as an extra restriction on government, not on people. The right to collect coins and other objects is closely related to the concept of private property. And it is a right, not a government granted privilege as long as the Constitution is operative.

    ...but that's enough gasoline poured on that fire, so I'll stop and apologize in advance. :eek:
     
  14. andrew289

    andrew289 Senior Analyst

    Oh, sweeper

    The things you learn on a coin forum...lol.

    Thank you for the lesson in Constitutional Law. I do remember that from law school. While I would love to debate you on the concept of private property and it's relationship to coin collecting... alas, that will have to wait for another forum (no pun intended)...lol.

    I love the cast of characters that post's here.
    From hence forth, you will be known as "the professor".
     
  15. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Mysticism and Tyrants

    You have more gasoline left in your tank than I do for disputing personal opinions in the guise of genuine knowledge. Once someone begins to work themselves up over something, I would rather take the sidelines and feed them as much rope as they need. Keeps my blood pressure where it oughta be. :goof:
     
  16. Cloudsweeper99

    Cloudsweeper99 Treasure Hunter

    Moen, I'm just trying to help John Locke stop spinning in his grave.

    But to get back on topic for a minute, if a circulated coin in EF or VF condition has been cleaned by, say, dipping, and it is allowed to naturally retone after a few years, can the cleaning still be detected? Is the coin still considered damaged? Does it regain its full circulated value? I know that once the mint luster is destroyed on an uncirculated coin it is permanently damaged. I'm not so sure about coins that lost the luster long ago.
     
  17. Speedy

    Speedy Researching Coins Supporter

    Lets get back to the coin topic----any off topice may be taken to the right forum.

    Speedy
     
  18. Moen1305

    Moen1305 Mysticism and Tyrants

    I find that circulated coins don't suffer much from a bit of gentle cleaning. Some of them down right deserve it. So much in the way of oils, dirt and even tar foul an otherwise nice looking coin and who wants to put all of that filth into their coin collection containers? Now that we are getting into some grey areas in the clean or don't clean controversy it doesn't seem like such a black and white issue anymore.

    I can't see ever dipping a coin to get back some of the original luster. Too much of the surface of the coin is sacrified in the process. I like the aged look of copper coins myself but other may have a different tastes. I have experimented with retoning copper coins and found that the sun will retone a coin rather quickly. Unfortunately it won't remove scratches or add lost details. If you try this at home, watch out for the crows. Apparently, they collect coins too. :eek:
     
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator


    If a coin is dipped properly you can't detect it 15 minutes later let alone 15 yrs later. Dipping a coin does not always harm the coin to the extent that it can be seen - over-dipping does harm the coin. And NO, I am not advocating dipping coins. Most of you know me better than that. I'm just saying that it is not always detectable - other than by deductive reasoning anyway.

    But if a coin is harshly cleaned and then allowed to retone naturally over the years - yes that is still detectable.
     
  20. Vroomer2

    Vroomer2 Active Member

    Indeed. That increases my value. :goofer:
     
  21. Old Silver

    Old Silver New Member

    ANACS told me that my BU details, "cleaned" 20c coin had probably been cleaned 100+ years ago!!! Result was a coin that was reduced in value over a thousand dollars due to the cleaning. Cleaning is bad, cleaning is permanent and it will effect another collector, somewhere, sometime down the road.
     
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