My first "plate" coin- Philip II coin published in McAlee

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Shea19, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. Shea19

    Shea19 Supporter! Supporter

    I recently acquired my my first “plate” coin, a Philip II coin from Antioch that is published in McAlee. Well, I actually bought the coin last summer, but I finally bought Richard McAlee’s reference book ("The Coins of Roman Antioch"), and I was very excited to see my coin pictured in the book.

    59727FBD-5D1E-41C6-B0C9-BFA02F3FE339.jpeg
    Philip II. 247-249 AD. AR Antoninianus (23mm, 4.47 g). Antioch mint. 1st issue. IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG, radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind / P M TR P VI COS P P, Philip standing left, holding transverse scepter and sacrificing with patera over altar to left. RIC IV 236;McAlee p. 327, fig. 30A (this coin illustrated).

    As someone who generally prefers online references to books (I know, I know, not the most popular thing to say here), I'll admit that I had never quite understood what the big deal was about owning a "plate" coin, but I completely get it now. It really was a pretty cool experience to open up an actual book and see a picture of my coin on the pages...much more fun than I expected it to be.

    Here's a photo of both sides of my coin next to the illustration in the book:

    0581933B-27A5-4630-8E7F-F30521C2A966.jpeg

    I think that McAlee's book is really an excellent reference. Though I usually just rely on online sources, I now have enough coins from Antioch and the Eastern mints that I figured it was time to get a more specialized reference. I was a little hesitant to spend the money on the book, but I'm SO happy that I did. Basically, for the price I would have paid to buy one more tetradrachm, I ended up getting a book that helped me understand so much more about the coins that I already have, and the ones I'll be adding in the future.

    The book is well-organized, easy to follow, has lots of great photos, and just has a ton of interesting information and detail. It focuses on the provincial coinage of Antioch (mine is one of the few Imperial coins illustrated in the book), but I think the author really did a great job of highlighting the coinage of each emperor, and the changes over time. I really wish I 'd bought this book much earlier, would highly recommend it to anyone!

    Please post your "plate" coins (whether illustrated in a book or an online source), any coins from the McAlee collection, Philip II coins, or anything else relevant!
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    congrats!
     
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  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    Very nice, @Shea19... that's a lovely coin and a great pedigree for it.

    I understand that this ex McAlee Gordian III of mine is illustrated in the same reference on page 316. I don't have the book, so if you could help me verify that, it would be very much appreciated. :)

    Gordian III - Ant ex McAlee Antioch Saecvli plate 4119.JPG
    GORDIAN III
    AR Antoninianus. 4.01g, 23.8mm. Antioch mint, 2nd series, 2nd issue, AD 242-244. Bland, Gordian III 82; RIC IV 216; RSC 319a; McAlee p. 316, fig. 28A (this coin illustrated). O: IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind. R: SAECVLI FELICITAS, Gordian standing right, holding transverse spear and globe.
    Ex Richard McAlee Collection
     
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  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Congrats, @Shea19 on your plate coin! It looks great, and I see why it was used for the book.

    Both of mine were “discovered” as plate coins AFTER I posted them here on CT. I also have a scarab that is a plate pic.


    PLATE COINS


    Potamikon

    [​IMG]
    Campania, Neopolis
    275-250 BCE
    AE 18, 4.99g
    Obv: Laureate Head of Apollo, NEOPOLITON (in Greek), Theta at r.
    Rev: Achelous advancing r, crowned by flying Nike, IOTA SIGMA under Achelous
    Ref: Sambon 663; HN Italy 589; SNG ANS 474; SNG Copenhage - ;

    @Nicholas Molinari :
    "Your first coin is a plate coin in Potamikon, number 343 in our catalog so Sambon 663; Taliercio IIIa.16; MSP I, 343, featuring Acheloios Sebethos as a man-faced bull. Taliercio cited three examples of this type, so yours is the fourth known of that particular variety."
    "According to my notes, ACR E-Auction 28 lot 12."



    Dattari Collection

    @Sulla80 graciously pointed out that mine was a plate coin!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Egypt, Alexandria.
    In the name of Livia, wife of Augustus Diobol
    circa 1-2 (year 31),
    Æ 23.5mm., 7.46g.
    Draped bust r. Rev. Athena standing l., holding Nike and leaning on shield;
    L-ΛA.
    Dattari-Savio Pl. 3, 60 (this coin). RPC pag. 692, 5 (this coin cited).
    Very rare. Nice brown-green tone. Very Fine
    From the Dattari collection.
    Naville Comments: In our opinion is correct the interpretation of Dattari on this coin and the date shown on the Rev. is L-ΛA and not LMA as suggested from RPC.
    ex Dattari-Savio Pl. 3 60-this coin RPC page 692-5-this coin
    RARE
    Ex: Naville Numismatics
     
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  6. Ardatirion

    Ardatirion Où est mon poisson

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  7. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Supporter! Supporter

    Shea, That looks like a beautiful gem grade double denarius :happy:, & being a plate coin gives it an important provenance ;). McAlee's book is an important reference source for serious numismatists :cool:. I've got many plate coins but will only post a few of them.
    McAlee 901f, obv..JPG McAlee 901f, rev..JPG

    Prieur 383 obv. (2).JPG Prieur 383 rev. (2).JPG

    2101304-010, AK Collection.jpg

    Prieur 86, AK Collection.jpg

    IMG_9274.JPG IMG_9278.JPG

    Prieur 503, obv..JPG Prieur 503, rev..JPG
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    You might consider it cheating but there is a way of being sure your coins are plate coins in a book. Write the book. I took the easier way out on this just by taking the photos for Victor Failmezger's book Late Roman Bronze Coins:
    https://mrbcoins.com/cgi-bin/lotinfo.pl?id=39778
    Last I heard Marc Breitsprecher still had a few copies of the book and even fewer of the plate coins. A hundred of my coins were slipped into the plates when mine were better than Tory's of that type but there were 500-600 of his. Most were been sold after he dissolved his collection. CT's own Valentinian also provided some photos but I do not recall how many. If anyone here has any of the Failmezger plate coins I still have the JPG files if you would like them for your coins. That project was the most coins I have ever shot using a white background.
     
  9. benhur767

    benhur767 Sapere aude

    A beauty!
     
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  10. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Nice coin, @Shea19!

    This one was owned by both Von Aulock and Henry Clay Lindgren:

    [​IMG]
    Annia Faustina, 3rd wife of Elagabalus, Augusta, 221 CE.
    Isinda, Pisidia; AE 25.0 mm, 8.55 gm
    Obv: ANNIAN FAVCTEINAN, Dr. bust of Faustina r.
    Rev: Confronted heads of Serapis and Isis, in field, E-Delta (yr. 4 ).
    Refs: Ex Lindgren I A1322A, ex von Aulock, Pisidia I 833 (Plate coin for both references).

    Here is the info from Lindgren I:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    Congrats, @Shea19 that is a very nice coin, and "plate coin" a nice bonus. I'll add a coin that is not a plate coin, but it seemed relevant as a coin from the Richard McAlee Collection upload_2021-6-18_15-27-39.png Septimius Severus, AD 193-211, AR Denarius (19mm, 2.78 g, 12h), "COS II series", struck AD 194-195
    Obv: IMP CAE L SEP SEV PERT AVG COS II, laureate head right
    Rev: FELICIT TEMPOR, grain ear between crossed cornucopiae
    Ref: RIC IV 373; BMCRE 347; RSC 142b
     
  12. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Supporter! Supporter

    Hey you ought to be in pictures ! I do not know if this is a record but this coin has showed up in three references
    Demetrios II Ar Tetradrachm Sidon 141-140 BC Obv Bust right draped and diademed Rv Eagle standing left 13.56 grams 26 mm Photo by W. Hansen SKdemetriosII-7.jpg It is Houghton 718 IMG_5497.JPG Hoover Handbook of Greek Coins Vol 9 No 969 IMG_5498.JPG
    and finally Lorber's Seleukid Coins Vol II No1954.6b IMG_5499.JPG When I bought the coin only the Houghton reference existed. The other two came long afterwards.
     
  13. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    @zumbly your coin is indeed illustrated in Mc Alee p.316. I can't take a picture right now (it's night here in France at the moment). Congrats !

    @Shea19 that's a great find, thanks for sharing

    Q
     
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  14. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Dombes collector Supporter

    I have some plate coins in my Dombes series, which sounds obvious as they're rare, with only a few nuts collecting them, and my nuttiness drives me to quite an extensive collection. I will not bore you, my friends, with them

    Rather, I'll show two noticeable plate coins (yes you already know them too, sorry)

    [​IMG]
    ROMAN EMPIRE PROVINCIAL, DOMITIUS DOMITIANUS, Octadrachm, EMMETT, Alexandrian coins - # 4241/2
    DOMITIUS DOMITIANUS, EGYPT, Octadrachm
    Alexandria mint, AD 296-297
    ΔOMITI-ANOC CEB, Radiate bust of Domitius right
    No legend, Serapis going right, LB in field (regnal year 2)
    12.79 gr
    Ref : Emmett, Alexandrian coins #4241/2 (this coin illustrated), RCV # 12982 (2000), Kampmann # 126.2, Sear # 4801 var (It's actually described as an hexadrachm in Sear)


    [​IMG]
    Roman Empire, Constantius II, Light Miliarense, FERRANDO, L'atelier monétaire d'Arles de Constantin à Romulus 313-476 - # 1026
    Arles mint (Arelate), 3d officina
    DN CONSTAN TIVS PF AVG, Diademed, draped and cuirassed bust of Constantius right
    VIRTVS EXERCITVS, Constantius (soldier) facing holding spear and shield. TCON at exergue
    4,54 gr ; 22,6 mm
    Ref : RIC VII # 252, Ferrando II # 1026 (this coin), Cohen #326, RC #3993v


    Q
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
  15. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    @Roman Collector

    A nice Annia Faustina!

    It is certainly ex Lindgren as you state, but von Aulock apparently never owned a specimen of this coin. I do not find it in his Sylloge, vols. 3 or 4 of the reprint, and the only coin of these types that von Aulock publishes in his Pisidia I, 823, is in Vienna, a well worn specimen, considerably inferior to yours ex Lindgren. It is clear that by 1977, the publication date of Pisidia I, von Aulock knew only that one Vienna specimen of your coin, which was missing from his own collection.
     
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  16. Spaniard

    Spaniard Well-Known Member

    Lovely examples shown!...
    Here's my humble Philip II...But it does have a nice portrait...
    Philip II... AR Antoninianus 247-249AD(23mm, 4.29g, 1h). Rome, AD 247.
    Obverse..IMP PHILIPPUS AVG...Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
    Reverse..PAX AETERNA...Pax standing left, holding olive branch and short sceptre.
    RIC IV 231c; RSC 23
    normal_1-7NdPwNC39MbbGa5Ht2Dt8X3nJsT4G6_(1).jpg
     
  17. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you so much for the clarification!
     
  18. Fugio1

    Fugio1 Supporter! Supporter

    I think I only have one. This is a Sear Roman Coins and their Values plate coin:
    228-1-Blk.jpg
    Denomination: Denarius
    Era: c. 140 BC
    Metal: AR
    Obverse: Helmeted head of Roma R; Behind, XVI downward. Border of dots
    Reverse: Victory in biga r., Holding reins in l. hand and whip in r. hand; above FLAC; below monogram of C. VAL.C.F. Line border
    Mint: Rome
    Weight: 4.03 gm.
    Reference: RRC 128/1
    Provenance: Aureo & Calico Alba Longa sale, November 7, 2018, Lot 710; Ex. NFA XXVII, Dec 4-5, 1991, Lot 343.

    Sear plate coin in Roman Coins and their Values for this type.

    This issue is one of the five issues listed in RRC with the mark of value XVI instead of X, signaling the re-tariffing of the denarius. Beautiful toning, well centered and Superb EF.
     
  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Interesting.
    This coin is an obverse die link to the one below that I failed to sell in one of John Anthony's CT sales a couple years ago. I considered it expendable because I had enough similar coins and the loss of COSII bothered me.
    rg1710preclean1035.jpg
    Since no one wanted it, I risked cleaning it and got this result showing the die break well enough that I decided to keep it.
    rg1710fd1035.jpg
    The pre-claning coin appeared on my web page as part of my 'quiz' on die links.
    Examine the twelve coins below. Identify any die duplicate coins and die linked obverse or reverse sets. The photo includes at least one die duplicate pair, at least one obverse link and at least one reverse link. Not all coins are necessarily linked to another. Some coins may be involved in more than one link. (Hint!) Answers below.
    [​IMG]
    Answers:
    Obverses: A=G; B=H; D=E=F; J=K
    Reverses: A=G; C=F; D=E; B=H
    Therefore coins A&G, B&H and D&E are die duplicates (both sides match).
    Dies of coins I&L are not linked to others shown.


    This last one is my favorite reading FEIICIT TIMLOR.. It also has reverse layout lines.
    rg2100bb1766.jpg

    They also come in a Domna version. There was a time I was buying these when I saw a die I did not have but I gave that up years ago.
    rk5380b01570lg.jpg
     
  20. Sulla80

    Sulla80 one coin at a time Supporter

    that was quite a transformative cleaning! The die looks more worn on my coin compared with yours. COS II restored.
    upload_2021-6-18_21-57-57.png
     
  21. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana Supporter

    Thanks for checking, Q!
     
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