My first "Investment Coin".

Coming from the not so little boy in momma's basement who blames anything and everything on someone else, who knows everything, thinks the world owes him a living, lives on the computer, never had a driver's license, and who never even met that special someone face to face. Perhaps I should take your "social" accusations as a compliment? The LAST person who should be making blind assumptions regarding the lives of others is you.

And of course nothing I've ever said to you has helped, and it's not because I'm so mean, but because you see and hear only what you want to, and there are plenty here who can vouch for this. This very thread vouches for it. I've always told you I wish you nothing but the best, and time and time again have wasted my time genuinely trying to offer a little hard-earned advice/experience, but because it doesn't fit in with your sense of entitlement or playing the perpetual victim, I'm the bad guy for not holding your hand. Fact is, Tim; once you leave home, no one will. Time and time again now you show here talking about how much you've grown up and changed before outing yourself to be the same you've always been. Remember last time?

Oh, and as for my avatar, you're right.... it was a luxury, and one I actually EARNED. I realize the concept of actually working to own something you want is foreign to you, and it's easier to tell stories of impending doom before begging a coin forum to all chip in and buy you a car, but some people take rightful pride in what they've done, and goes to the very point so many here have pressed upon you for so long. If you had grown up, and especially considering all you've aired here, you wouldn't throw such a little fit over completely valid questions or still concern yourself with what others own/owned just as you always have. It doesn't matter that I worked and saved for what I have to had, all that matters is who has more than you and how unfair that is.

You can't just expect to show up after however long and have no one remember anything of the past, especially when rehashing the same old tired nonsense as you've done "ad infintum". The very title of this thread is a lie, Tim, amd you and Josh are both CEOs, but yes, bad, bad me as clearly a whole new man.

 

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I don't invest in individual companies. I invest in hundreds of companies via index funds. Any one company going out of business isn't very meaningful to me. I also invest in real estate and bonds.

I don't invest in collectibles, because they're not good investments. Ask anybody who bought into Beanie Babies. Even the ones that increase in value provide no income, no tax advantages, and are hard to sell for a good price. And, for any sizeable collection, one should have an insurance policy, eating away at the gains in value over time.

Honestly, I think the only way to retire on coins is to be a successful dealer and invest some of the profits from selling coins into real investments.

 

The only people who make big money on coins also spend huge sums of money acquiring thier coins then waiting many years to recoup their money. Investing in coins can and has been successful, but I personally worry about the market falling apart due to the lack of younger newcomers to the hobby. The recent influx of collectors brought on by the quarters program will fade away and we may have another early nineties type of run in which nobody was making any money. I don't see the market for coins ever taking a nosedive like stamps, but the concern for a large market downturn is there and the time may not be very far off. Collect for the love of the hobby and buy your coins wisely; this will return much more than wealth.

 

I think the market will hold solid for quite awhile. There's a lot of serious. Collectors in the 35-50 age bracket and most will be buying for quite awhile. As well as all the yns that will hopefully be the future of the business

 

I'm hoping - and planning - that the Internet will be as much advantage as disadvantage, exposing far more potential new collectors than ever before. If you pick up a weird coin in change - or find one on the street, or are randomly browsing Ebay and come across something - and you can figure it out in seconds via Google, you're more likely to catch the bug. 25 years ago, you had to pretty much already be coin-centric to be able to accumulate information about any given coin. Such information wasn't something you "happened across."

 

This thread is great, and in my opinion is full of good advice about the monetary investing of coins. Sure, there is money to be made (and lost) with coins. My "investment" is seeing the smiles and wonderment in my children's eyes when my collection gets pulled out of the safe and handed to them.

 

100% agree !!

Unless you have a multi-million dollar portfolio, lots of real estate, a business that throw off cash flow, or a great pension/IRA/TDA that takes care of 90% of your needs, you need to properly diversify your portfolio. And putting 20% into non-interest bearing speculative assets is not smart.

 

Gee, GoldFinger, I have a 403 B that guarantees me 4% interest a year at least and if rates go higher I get that instead of the 4%. And that's besides my SS and NYS pension. I haven't sold any coins or paper currency for less than I paid for them even with the outrageous fees that Ebay and Amazon charge. And I'm a CPA who believes that it doesn't take a churner like an CFA or CFP to tell you where to put your money. Oh yes I have rental property also. "La vita e' bella!"

 

Try to live in a property that you buy in Camden, NJ, a state where you can't get a permit for a firearm for self defense. Real estate crashes and so do stocks. In spite of what some crooks say, they are not "too big to fail." Gold and silver have always had intrinsic value. Ask the Jewish refugees that were lucky enough to escape to Switzerland from the Nazis.

 

No investment is 100% safe, as you know. Investments have returns because there is risk. The point about coins, specifically non-precious metal coins like the half cent in question, is that they really do have no intrinsic value. Land, stocks, bonds, these things have value. They generate income, or have the potential to generate income. Now, that income stream can evaporate based on mismanagement, boom bust cycles, or other reasons, but when you purchase them as an investment you are purchasing a claim on tangible assets that have the capacity to produce something of value. Coins do not, they are a last sucker 'investment' with no claim on income or productive assets.

 

Has Detecto92 ever done anything bad to you ?
Why not just ignore threads like this instead of continually poisoning the atmosphere here at these forums ?

I never followed the thread where Detecto92 asked for money to buy a car. But if I was participating in a discussion where somebody nicely asked for money to buy a car, I would have just said "sorry dude, no" and laughed it off and that would be the end of it.

PS:
What I do see in this thread is a person who is enthusiastic about a coin which, in my opinion, is a pretty nice coin for not a lot of money.

 

Four times in two days, huh? Have you completed the task of copying every superior (to your own that is) design out there and have nothing better to do than follow me around? If I am a poison the forum, that must mean you are a poison to the hobby, right?

As for the OP, I don't recall you being here for the daily intallments of the Detecto show, Mr. Carr. Perhaps if you had you'd better understand why it was said, where it came from, and why the initial questions were completely reasonable. A little truism often attributed to Einstein is that, to paraphrase, "insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result" yet here we are again rehashing the same exact thing we have time and time before, and each time it ends the same way. Feel free to, like Tim and whoever else, think I'm just being a big meanie trying to quash his fun. I understand, that's easier than actually looking at or thinking about the big picture, or hoping that he's finally addressing long ignored and much blabbered about issues in his life. Don't concern yourself with highly questionable way he's trying to justify the "investment" or what happens if (when) he has to cash out. Nope, let's just all hold hands and pretend everything is hunky-dory and congratulate him for being so smart, or pretending to be a CEO, or god knows whatever other way of wiggling out of reality is hopefully not brewing inside his head. When I said I wish only the best for the young man, I meant it and always have, but even if he ignores me or you, sir, don't like it, maybe, just maybe, if he has indeed grown up, something will sooner or later click. But hey, if things on the CEO front don't work out, perhaps you could offer him a job.

 

You are the exception to the rule. Most people are not CPAs, CFAs, or CFPs.

Most people have trouble spending 15 minutes a week on their investments while spending hours on The Khardisians or Fantasy Football.

And CFPs and CFAs are not 'churners,' a phrase that is from the 1980's. That would be like me saying that a CPA designation is for tax evasion involving the Cayman Islands.

 

Sometimes a person or persons may feel that always fighting for the last word is noble; in truth, being able to withhold comments is the smartest and bravest thing to do.

 

My personal take on "investing" (given as an opinion only, not as advice):

There is no such thing as a "retail investor". There are only "retail chumps".
Sure, some people have made a lot of money in stocks as "retail" buyers and sellers. Many have not. If you buy a stock in the hope that you can sell it for more in the future, that is NOT investing. It is speculating. The average stock buyer is a speculator, no different than the average coin buyer who is looking to make a profit. Buying a coin in the hope that it will go up in market value so you can sell at a profit is speculating, just like buying a stock. There is nothing wrong with speculating, however, so long as you realize that it isn't the same thing as investing.

Warren Buffet, for example, is a true investor and not a speculator. When he buys, he BUYS THE COMPANY, reorganizes it, and runs it his way. That is the ultimate "activist investor". If you are not an activist in a company you own shares in, then you are a speculator, not an investor.

However, stocks that pay dividends are a little different. If you buy dividend-paying stocks for the purpose of an income stream, then that is similar to buying a bond, an annuity, or a certificate of deposit (for examples). That is fine, so long as the counterparty properly fulfills their obligations (which isn't always the case). I would consider this type of thing to be a form of "saving", not really investing or speculating.

If a person has some extra discretionary income to "invest", that money should go towards these things (in priority order from highest priority to lowest):

1) Pay off debt. Start with the highest interest rate loan first.
So-called "financial advisors" would never advise you to liquidate your 401K (or similar). But if I had a 401K earning 2% on average and a mortgage charging 5%, I personally would cut out the middle man and liquidate the 401K, pay the penalties, and use the proceeds to pay down the mortgage. If the 401K entity were to go belly-up (unlikely but not impossible), you would still be holding the bag for the mortgage. Of course, this all depends on how many years away your penalty-free IRA/401K withdrawal is, how much money is involved, and what company matching contributions (if any) are in effect. The feeling of knowing that you have less debt and no counterparty to rely on for the 401K money, is priceless. There is a reason why the laws are structured the way they are. Everything is geared towards putting your own money under the control of someone else (the "bank"). You wouldn't buy bullion and then pay to have someone else store it in their vault. Why do that with the rest of your money ? Cut out the middle man (the bank and other "financial institutions") wherever and whenever possible.

2) Invest in yourself. Skills and capabilities (education), equipment, facilities, property, etc. There is no better company to invest in than yourself.

3) Assets. Purchase things that you enjoy, but also have potential resale value. Unlike a stock certificate, owning a classic car or a nice coin is something you can enjoy while you own it.

4) Invest in companies run by someone else (retail stocks), or loan money at interest to someone else (bonds).

 

The "Detecto show" ? That sounds entertaining.

Anyway, I stand by what I said 100%.
But I've said my piece (although the key points concerning your false allegations of me "stealing" photos were deleted from the other thread).

So at this point, I'm totally done with the feuding. Nothing else to say about that after this. Perhaps you can see fit to "chill out" some as well. You may have the rest of the words and the last word.

 

Thank goodness. I was about to Ignore you, too.

 

You must mean tax avoidance not "tax evasion."
I leave you with a quote from Judge Learned Hand:

"Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands."

 

Guy I know tells me about his investment adventures. Some went ok but also likes to mention how he invested $64k with a well known brokerage firm in the 90s to let the "pros" handle the investing strategy. Says he's up to $36k in 2016.
Pulled another investment to purchase a house out in country with acreage that he probably won't be able to break even on due to interest and taxes that have been paid.
Savings accounts pay nothing. CDs pay nothing. Real estate is a major pita and has been a loser for me. 401k at work is around 8% since inception being in mostly the highest risk options. Sometimes having something in your possession thats just maintaining value feels like a win. I wish everyone luck though.
There are ways and instances that sometimes pop up where maybe you can double your money, even if only on a small scale. If you calculate how difficult that is to do using conventional investing methods, it nearly takes a lifetime if ever. Along with the inflation and fees.
As was stated earlier, eliminating debt would probably be the most valuable investment 90% of the country could make. But it's not as enjoyable or visual so even I have trouble wanting to make a double payment over acquiring a new coin, tool, etc...

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