My first "Investment Coin".

What makes a coin really valuable is government connivance, contrivance and manipulation. Read the following:

http://bullion.nwtmint.com/blog/gold-bullion/the-hunt-for-1933-double-eagle-gold-coins/

 

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Like a couple of others here, I tend to cross my eyes when I hear investments and coins mentioned in the same breath. But your chart does make a good point. Frankly, though, I think 20 percent of your true investment portfolio in coins is way too much. Separate your hobby money and your investment money -- and continue to pursue your coin strategy with disposable income. Just my idea.

 

Well the good thing about it, I don't see collecting this coins as JUST an investment, but as a hobby too.

It's fun to pull the slabs out of their "tomb" (pcgs boxes) every now and then and look at them and appreciate their designs.

 

Wrong. The tomb is the plastic that coin is encased in.

 

You also have to remember that most in the Early American Copper collectors dont have their coins graded by TPG. Their way of grading is extremely strict,they also know that pure copper coins need a little Blue Ribbon or mineral oil to keep them from becoming pitted due to the violatile nature of the metal. So remember the pop reports dont include most of the hard core half cent collectors coins. Something to think about also!

 

I am on the coins+investment=bad idea train, mostly because I don't want to subject my hobby to that much work, I want to buy what I like not what I think other people might like. I also know myself too well, and I know that thinking about coins as an investment is an all to easy way to justify overspending.

Secondly, I just really don't think future generations are going to collect coins in nearly the same numbers as the baby boomers did, and they are the ones under girding the current market. When they age out of collecting I think the market will devalue quite a bit. This generation had a strong emotional attachment to coins and collecting that I just don't see being repeated in kids today, which is from my experience failing to get my three kids into collecting. As an example, many of the auction catalogs start with a bit of background on the collector who is selling the coins, and almost all of those contain a story about some menial (news paper delivery/cutting lawns/etc.) job done between 8-12 years old where they received change as payment and started collecting. Collecting for baby boomers is a way to emotionally re-live their childhood, and achieve something they dreamed about as kids (owning that 1909 s-vdb). Without that type of early emotional attachment to collecting I doubt how many kids today will make it a hobby in 30-40 years.

Lastly, coins are a last sucker investment. Unlike real-estate or stocks which generate income streams and have tangible assets behind them, coins have no intrinsic value. I can live in my rental property, I can't do anything with my large cents...

 

I can get behind that.

I'd just rather see those "investment coins" be ones with demonstrated demand, not "undervalued" because undervalued coins are those with insufficient collector base to sustain demand.

 

By that measure neither does your house, unless someone feels like buying it.

 

Did you pay closer to $80 or $228 for it?

 

Deja vu all over again... and again and again and again. This isn't your "first investment coin", or second, third, tenth, or fiftieth, so what's truly different about this one, and why is it going to end any differently than all the others, with being sold, usually at a loss, when your interests turn elsewhere or you need a little scratch? Go ahead, Timmy, think I'm being mean or unwelcoming of your triumphant return, but considering the past it's a very valid question.

How many times have we gone over this same thing with you, and how many times have you pulled out redbook (or whatever) numbers in trying to show how smart you are while completely ignoring anything and everything you don't want to hear? How many times has it been explained by the good members here that red book prices are meaningless, which is something I even recall you repeating to others, yet here you are again trying to sell yourself (not us) on this grand "investment" based upon them. How many times has it been pointed out to you and others that one cannot simply look in a guide, compare numbers, and use as absolute evidence of future "profit" or "return"? Again, how many coins have you sold at a loss because you couldn't even get what you just paid back much less full red book? Everything you've had an interest in has been a great "investment", be it Bust, Seated, bullion, British, etc, etc, etc. You CLEARLY believe whatever you want to, but putting forth this nonsense simply to convince yourself is dangerous to those less experienced with you.

Since we're again rehashing history, let me ask this: have you yet paid off all of your ridiculous debits? How about college or the grand move to Michigan, and how about a job, or is being, ahem, "CEO" of a small one-man yardsale to ebay operation have you set for life? "Investing" is certainly wise, but only for one who can actually afford to do so, and is one of the many reasons why so many of us have continually pressed you to first "invest" in yourself. I'd truly love to learn that things have changed for you, Tim, and that your life is finally on solid footing, but here we are again and as much as I do hate to say it, this strongly suggests that nothing has changed.

 

I have no clue about early copper. But this does make sense. And the above posts of other dealers & experienced collectors should make you aware that in order to "invest" you'll probably need to get a higher grade coin and spend much more money...

 

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

 

Since you are insisting on calling this coin an investment, I am going to put on my investment hat as one who has extensively invested in stocks and bonds for years.

You are guilty of one of the worst possible assumptions in investing: that a particular item, in this case that coin, will accelerate in value at a certain rate for 36 years based on what it has done in the past.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. No investment item continues to grow in value into perpetuity. Planning for retirement would be a whole lot easier if it did.

There is a very good reason that all investment prospectuses carry the warning: Past performance is NOT indicative of future returns.

 

...you still working for big brown Timmy? Nice coin

 

I honestly hate to say it, but whenever a new Timmy thread appears, I cannot help but to think no truer words have ever been spoken.

 

I don't really understand why you continue to infiltrate my threads and then turn and prattle ad infintum about how supposedly bad my life stinks. All the meanwhile flashing your symbol of luxury in your avatar as a constant reminder of your supposed luxurious lifestyle, as your if trying to hint at that somehow you are more superior than I am due to your assumed financial status.

I am having a hard time deciphering what exactly your goal is, or simply the point of what your trying to covey to me, by continually ranting on and on in the most scathing way possible.

I can't call it constructive criticism because there is nothing constructive about it, it seems almost borderline masochistic/ sadistic.

I am not exactly sure what your problem is, either in the mental sense of it, or speaking of your rather unwelcome posting style, but if you wish to continue, have at it. I don't understand what your trying to accomplish, if anything at all.

I have grown past airing my dirty laundry on public discussion, I thought that somehow maybe you could comprehend that people change as they get older, but from the way you compile your posts, I don't sense any sort of happiness or positive thoughts from it. It suggests to me that you live a rather lonely and boring life with as little social interaction as possible. An "eccentric hermit" if you wish.

I am not exactly sure what it was that happened in your life that caused you to behave this way, if it was a sudden action or years of some sort of trauma that caused your brain to turn into a real life "Mr. Grinch".

I hope one day maybe you will snap out of it and realize acting this way towards others is not a surefire way to make friends, but maybe you don't want any friends.

In conclusion, you have been placed on ignore. Because pretty much anything you have ever said to me has not helped me in anyway, but rather been a constant reminder of how people can turn out to be after years of social neglect.

 

I find it somewhat amusing that people here seem almost "scared" to consider even investing in coins, but have no problem investing tens of thousands into companies that have no guarantee of being around the next year.

Case in point, one of my dad's friends invested almost 100,000 dollars into Kmart in the Early 80's. Lesson for you younger folks, at one time Kmart outpaced Wal-Mart in sales, and Sam Walton would even stop by Kmart to try and figure out why.

In the late 90's, through poor management choices, Kmart's sales started slipping, and suddenly around 2002-4 when Kmart went bankrupt, my dad's friend lost well over 10,000 dollars.

I have seen tons of "doing well" companies slip into history.

With the exception of modern coins (usually a poor investment unless they are super-low mintage), and some "hoards" that been discovered, coins are a safer investment than stocks.

But like I said, my focus is to make money, but it's not always possible, I don't EXPECT coins to make me money 35-40 years from now, but it's still a very good hobby that could serve a useful purpose as an income source down the road.

 

Damn man, he's been gone a while and is (relatively) young. A nice welcome back would be a good preface.

 

The word "invest" seems to be used very loosely nowadays. I suppose anything you "invest" in, and you get a +return on it, is a win, be in $1 or $100.00 I quit the "investment" game of precious metals, and now I am sticking to higher end coins, key dates, rarity condition, and type set pieces.

If one can make money at this, all the more power to them. But I've learned, as with most careers, ya gotta be juiced in.

 

It's a middle grade coin of a common date. Basically an entry level half cent. While there will always be a demand for this coin it will never be a strong one. This will appeal to the budget minded type set collector for example. For a true investment this coin in 63 brown. Or better. Or a high demand series like Morgan's in high grade or a better date Or coins with exceptional eye appeal are always popular. Or for a real investment a coin like a 1796 quarter. Or half. Anyone doing a type set needs one. But their damn near impossible to find. While I don't feel this coin will be a loser. I don't feel it will ever be a serious moneymaker