My favorite coin of 2021

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Aug 2, 2021.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Every year for several years now some of us have posted an end of year list of our ten favorite new purchases. It does not look like I will be playing this year since my first candidate arrived just today and I sincerely doubt I will be buying ten coins this years. I am starting to think that my favorite collectable coins are those no one else would want. This coin is not beautiful but I found it interesting. Most of you will not.

    Postumus AE double sestertius with two different dies used on the reverse:
    rr1925aa2145.jpg
    The seller billed this as an example of a 'situation' I first learned of from Curtis Clay which demonstrates his proposal for a mint practice where a striking team consisted of two men with reverse dies alternating on one obverse (anvil) die. These show one obverse but two reverses caused by the failure to remove the freshly struck coin from the anvil before the second strike was made with the other reverse die (often inverted). Sometimes these two dies were of the same type; sometimes they were different. Since the coin was not removed from the obverse die, it does not need to show double striking. This coin is very different. The obverse is double struck with the two rotated. To accept it as an example of the 'team of three' error, I need to convince myself that these two obverses are the same die. That will require some photo alignments that I have not yet done. Otherwise it is just a standard overstrike which is very common on Postumus AE. Usually, however, these are overstruck on Antonine sestertii rather than other coins of Postumus. My image shows the same coin twice but rotated to favor each of the two strikes. I have placed what I consider to be matching strikes left and right but I am not fully convinced yet as to which was first. The coin just came today and has not been studied in depth.

    Both reverses are Victory coins. Both used VICTORIA AVG legends. On the left is a single Victory advancing left. On the right are two Victories (only one shows here) with palm between. In both cases the other strike removed the captives expected on these types. Unfortunately only one profile of the portrait is clear. People who collect this sort of thing can't be too picky. Below are links form CNG sales of 'normal' coins.
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=275041

    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=283822

    Please post opinions and examples of other multiple strikes on Postumus bronzes you may have. I'll start with my galley reverse on a Antoninus Pius undertype. Feel free to ID the reverse of the Pius undertype.
    rr1912bb3190.jpg
     
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  3. Cherd

    Cherd Junior Member Supporter

    Can't say that I have much to add in terms of evaluation, but this certainly is an interesting coin. As someone that started in modern coins (as most of us probably did) and found error varieties interesting, it's cool to see the ancient equivalents of those kinds of "Screw ups". Imagining 2 guys taking turns putting planchets under different reverses while a 3rd guy swings a hammer also humanizes and provides some situational awareness about how these things were done back then. Pretty cool.

    If I owned this coin and ever put it up for sale, I'd call it the "Victory 69 Coin". (If you get that joke then you have a dirty mind and should be ashamed of yourself :troll:)
     
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  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    That is an excellent coin! An interesting "error" and a Double Victory! Win/win in my book. I don't have any multiple struck Postumus to share. I do have a double struck Constantine VII though it isn't nearly as interesting as yours.
    Constantine VII, Follis, Multiple Strikes.png
     
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  5. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    My favorite coin of 2021 is the Rooseveltus dimeus :woot:...this year marking the 75th anniversary of its 1946 debut and still going strong as the longest tenure for any U.S. coin in history without any changes/revisions on either side (save for the mint-mark and any subtle design tweaks that all coins may have on occasion). Bravoius...!
     
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  6. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    I think it’s an awesome pick-up Doug! I am interested to see what the obverse strike looks like after your photo alignments
     
  7. Severus Alexander

    Severus Alexander find me at NumisForums

    I would love to have that coin and look forward to hearing more about it. (The two obverse strikes do seem to be from the same die.) I suspect my own Postumus double sestertius of being overstruck (see the business between 2 and 3 o'clock on the reverse) but I have no idea what the undertype might be:
    postumus double sest.jpg
     
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  8. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Very glad to see you posting and that you still have a keen eye for the unique:

    Best I can do is an ex @Bing that may be much more representative of a different individual than the coin purports:
    Screenshot_20200919-170836_PicCollage-removebg-preview.png
    AUREOLUS
    Antoninianus
    OBVERSE: IMP POSTVMVS AVG, radiate, draped, and cuirassed bust of Postumus right
    REVERSE: VIRTVS EQVIT, Virtus advancing right, holding transverse spear and shield; T in ex.
    Struck at Mediolanum, 268 AD
    3.17g, 19mm
    RIC V 388
     
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  9. AncientJoe

    AncientJoe Well-Known Member

    That's fascinating! I wonder how a die study would choose to visualize this. A perfect fit for a top 2021 for you.
     
  10. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    I was in a similar position last year when I purchased only 5 coins all year and so made my year end list a “Top 5”. If you don’t get to 10 I hope you will still do a year end list of what you do collect. Especially if they are all as cool as this example.

    That is a wonderful double sestertius with a neat theory as to its manufacture. I never considered a situation where two mint workers would share an obverse die station but it makes perfect sense. A double sestertius (of any emperor) is on my list now after seeing so many great examples here on CT.

    Earlier this year this Postumus found a new home with Claudius_Gothicus. The portraits for Postumus can sometimes be very artistic.
    E1B56155-E637-4C47-A577-AA35F735171D.jpeg
     
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  11. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I love Postumus coins!

    The dichotomy between the obverse's naturalism and the reverse's abstraction is sometimes rather astounding. Almost as if they had a master, imperial-trained sculptor engrave the obverse, and a talented local do the reverse.

    Postumus RIC 89 (2020_11_18 03_38_31 UTC).jpeg


    But sometimes the obverse is rather cartoony too.
    Postumus BI Ant RIC Cologne 311.JPG
     
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  12. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    The OP coin is fantastic. I used to have a double struck or overstruck Postumus sestertius. However, the coin was stolen from me in a burglary in London. I assumed that the coin was overstruck on a different type, but it may have been produced by the process described by Doug. I wish I still had that coin.


    Here is the picture:

    Screenshot 2021-08-03 at 07.38.56.png
     
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  13. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Interesting examples, Doug. I really enjoy overstruck and multiple struck coins.

    This Postumus double sestertius, which is from Roma E-Sale 58, does not show signs of multiple strikes, but this coin was obviously struck over a prior coin. I cannot determine what the original coin was. Additionally the coin has significant damage to the dies, both sides. Clearly they were both used to virtually the end their useful lives, especially the reverse.

    Postumus AE Double Sestertius, Roma E-Sale 58.jpg
     
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  14. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Since I mentioned it, the Arcadius coin below shows the more standard situation where the reverse is overstruck but the obverse is not. The theory is that the struck coin was not removed and was struck again by the other reverse die which was inverted. Notice the exergue is repeated at the top. In this case, both dies were the same type.
    ry7890bb0060.jpg
     
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  15. svessien

    svessien Senior Member

    Glad to see there was a coin for you in 2021, Doug. Congrats!

    I don’t have any double struck AEs of Postumus to contribute with. (In fact I don’t find a lot of error coins in my collection at all..) I find your post very intrresting, though, about how these errors can tell us something about the minting process.

    Nauman had a Maxentius that was double struck on both sides in their last auction:

    14ED66F8-1917-45E9-8735-E0EA3A6723E1.jpeg

    (Naumann 106/779)
     
  16. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    That's very interesting, @dougsmit! I enjoy these coins that demonstrate the technical aspects of mint production, too.

    I don't have a coin double struck with two different reverse dies to show -- Doug's might be the only such example among us -- but here's my most dramatic double-strike.

    It was double struck on the reverse, turning "PVDICITIA AVG" into "DICITIA AVG," squishing Pudicitia in the midriff, and giving her a low-rider throne! It features her later hairstyle.

    [​IMG]
    Herennia Etruscilla, AD 249-251.
    Roman orichalcum sestertius, 15.15 g, 28.3 mm, 12 h.
    Rome, AD 251.
    Obv: HERENNIA ETRVSCILLA AVG, draped bust, right; later coiffure; wearing stephane.
    Rev: PVDICITIA AVG S C, Pudicitia seated left, drawing veil and holding transverse scepter.
    Refs: RIC 136b; Cohen 22; RCR 9505; Hunter 16.
     
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  17. seth77

    seth77 Well-Known Member

    Michael VIII Sear 2269 with reversed dies:


    1991354_1623598617.jpg
     
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  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Thanks to all. The point here is there are two very different 'errors' at play. When a coin is struck twice in the mint at one time within a second or two of each other, we call that a 'double strike'. They can show a small shift or a huge offset or rotation even including being flipped over so each side got a reverse and an obverse. My best example is this denarius of Septimius Severus with Mars Pater on both sides.
    rj4220bb2026.jpg

    The other 'situation' I prefer not to call an error because it was quite intentional. That is when an earlier coin is used to 'overstrike' using another die set. This could occur within seconds if a coin from team A 'jumped' into the flan supply basket of team B working nearby at the same time but usually 'overstrikes' were done to convert old, obsolete coins into the current fashion. A standard example of this is my Constantius Gallus falling horseman that converted the earlier period Constantius II left facing / two captives issue upgrading its denomination when the weight standard for FH had declined to match the middle size denomination of the first period.
    rx7205bb2887rot.jpg

    You must be tired of seeing my claim to the record for this sort of thing - the Anonymous Class A3 follis overstruck on as as of Gordian III (a gap of nearly 790 years). rz0505fd3399.jpg

    What made my newly purchased 'different' is it seemed to be an overstrike with two reverses but possibly the same obverse and part of the same issue probably in production at the same time. Why would the mint do that? If the obverse die can be identified with certainty as the same, the 'team of three' theory seems possible. I showed an Arcadius I believe to be 'team of three' and have many times here shown another candidate I consider even better: My Constantius II/Constantius Gallus pairing. The 'situation' here would require that the issue was made using the reverse on the anvil and the obverse on top (some were) AND that the falling horseman reverse involved only one die.
    rx7277bb3232.jpg
    The above is one of my most favorite of my favorite coins and, dollar for dollar (it cost $5) my best buy. Certainly I wish it had better surfaces and had cost $10 but we take what we can find. It has legend clearly showing NOB CAES of Gallus but a laurel wreath of Constantius II. Rare coins are difficult but the impossible are harder to find. What makes this a favorite of mine is that it shows that it is not necessary to spend big money to enjoy this hobby if you value things other than a MS 5/5 5/5 label. I'll never know what these would bring at auction (probably less than the seller's fee) and hope someday to meet a young person who wants them as a gift when they 'become available'.

    Errors are fun. Overstrikes are not errors but seem appropriate to collect alongside errors. I call this 'technical' collecting and encourage you all to ignore the possibility of gathering coins of the like. I do not need the competition.:happy:
     
  19. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Coins without overstriking on the obverse, but with reverses overstruck with one contemporaneous die over another, of the same or different types, have been noticed and published for centuries, but nobody knew how to explain them, until the idea explained by Doug in his first post above occurred to Colin Kraay in conversation with myself in 1974, when we were discussing such an overstruck As of Caracalla that the Ashmolean Museum had recently acquired. I call them "Kraay overstrikes", and published the idea for the first time in a major journal in Numismatic Chronicle 2012, since Kraay never published it himself.
     
  20. Di Nomos

    Di Nomos Well-Known Member

    When I was a kid, looking at pictures of ancient coins that were double struck, off centre, odd shape flans etc was one of the first things that got me interested in them. I found the imperfections and just human error of it all fascinating.

    I like to collect "better condition" (more expensive in other words) coins now, but still enjoy learning about minting techniques and how certain things would have occurred.

    Thanks for the interesting information Doug & curtislclay.......I would like to have met Colin Kraay!
     
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  21. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    Fascinating coin, Doug! It combines the two reverses of my two Postumus double sestertii.

    Postumus overstruck double sestertius01362q00.jpg
    Postumus - DS Double Victory 2017.jpg

    The first one is overstruck on a sestertius of Antoninus Pius. An identifiable undertype is probably the only thing missing on yours that could have made it even better. :D
     
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