My ex-John Quincy Adams RR denarius is on the way back from NGC, but...

lordmarcovan · Apr 26, 2023

sand said: ↑

Congratulations that CNG will take back the fourree.
By the way, looking through the Stack's 1971 catalog, I wonder how many of the coins in the Stack's 1971 auction, were owned by John Quincy Adams himself, and how many of the coins were acquired by his son and grandson after JQA's lifetime. On the title page of the Stack's 1971 catalog, it says "Featuring the Collection of President John Quincy Adams and Descendants". And, in the catalog section "THE ADAMS FAMILY AS COLLECTORS", it mentions that JQA's son and grandson also were very interested in coins. For example, the following quote is from the Stack's 1971 catalog.
"It consisted of about 10,000 coins in all categories spanning the numismatic spectrum from the Ancient world to modem times and was formed by three generations."
And the following quote from the Stack's 1971 catalog.
"When the Historical Society was able to take stock of its new acquisition in 1914 the curator. Dr. Storer, made a most illumi- nating comment about it. He wrote, "Apparently it was the aim of Mr. Adams to form a collection fairly representative of the numismatic science throughout the ages, rather than to specialize in any particular field, as is more apt to be the practice of modern numismatists." Just which Mr. Adams he means in this case is perhaps not clear but the judgment would seem to apply fairly to all three men."
Interestingly, there is also the following quote in the Stack's 1971 catalog, earlier in the same paragraph as the above quote.
"John Quincy Adams made a list of his holdings in 1813. A further list compiled by Charles Francis shows additions made to the collection by his father and himself down to 1838. It would appear that in all probability he received the entire collection from his father at some time between 1834 and 1838. During the next few years his numismatic activity increased, reaching its high point about 1864 while he was Minister in London."
JQA passed away in 1848 at age 80.
It would be interesting, if someone could find either of the above 2 lists. If one wanted to ensure, that one had a coin which was owned by JQA himself, rather than acquired by his son or grandson after JQA's lifetime, then it would be helpful to have the above 2 lists.
However, I imagine that, even owning a coin which was aquired by JQA's son or grandson after JQA's lifetime, would probably be important to one of JQA's descendants, such as yourself. Also, there is the following quote from the Stack's 1971 catalog.
"His son, Charles Francis Adams (1807-1886), was also active in politics and diplomacy, serving as Minister to Great Britain during the Civil War. His grandson, Henry Adams (1838-1918), became one of our most renowned historians and authors."
Click to expand...

It is indeed problematic to assign ownership of one of these Adams family coins to JQA himself with any certainty, since the subsequent generations added to the collection as mentioned. But I like to think that a lot of the ancients were his. It’s close enough for me, as I am also a descendant.

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

lordmarcovan · Apr 26, 2023

Barry Murphy said: ↑

It may not be obvious from the photo, but the weight should have been an indication that there was an issue. It’s half a gram light. There are 2 3.2 gram denarii of this issue on Coin Archives, both Fourres, and only this one in the 3.3 range. 3.3 should have rung some bells and whistles. There are also small spots of copper showing through, and the specific gravity test we did confirmed it was mostly copper.

Barry
Click to expand...

Thank you for chiming in on this thread. Your input has been very useful.

sand · Apr 26, 2023

lordmarcovan said: ↑

It is indeed problematic to assign ownership of one of these Adams family coins to JQA himself with any certainty, since the subsequent generations added to the collection as mentioned. But I like to think that a lot of the ancients were his. It’s close enough for me, as I am also a descendant.
Click to expand...

Do you think, that you will try to locate those 2 lists, which I mentioned? Perhaps the 2 lists, are on the internet, somewhere.

lordmarcovan · Apr 26, 2023

sand said: ↑

Do you think, that you will try to locate those 2 lists, which I mentioned? Perhaps the 2 lists, are on the internet, somewhere.
Click to expand...

I probably should, huh.

red_spork · Apr 28, 2023

lordmarcovan said: ↑

As to CNG selling me a fourree, I wonder if I have any recourse with them over that?
Click to expand...

That is a valid reason for return IMHO. Contact them, they'll probably take it back. If not, shout it from the rooftops...

red_spork · Apr 28, 2023

Barry Murphy said: ↑

There are also small spots of copper showing through, and the specific gravity test we did confirmed it was mostly copper.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity: Is this a service that can be specifically requested from NGC as part of encapsulation? I have tested several of my own coins and a few for friends but I am always hesitant to offer to SG test a coin, especially a very expensive one, for someone I don't know well, for liability reasons mostly(i.e. I don't want to be responsible if it disappears or gets damaged in the mail). Would be great to be able to tell people that's an option if they absolutely have to get a coin tested.

Log in or Sign up

My ex-John Quincy Adams RR denarius is on the way back from NGC, but...

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

Guest User Guest

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

sand Well-Known Member

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

red_spork Triumvir monetalis

red_spork Triumvir monetalis

Share This Page

Log in or Sign up

My ex-John Quincy Adams RR denarius is on the way back from NGC, but...

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

Guest User Guest

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

sand Well-Known Member

lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

red_spork Triumvir monetalis

red_spork Triumvir monetalis

Share This Page

Useful Searches