My eBay scam story

Ugh…
Well, I just encountered my first ebay scammer. So here is the story. I was looking at a coin on ebay with some poor pictures. The coin was attributed and even tough I couldn’t make out detail, it didn’t look horrible. Still, I wanted to check with the seller just in case. So instead of bidding, I messaged the seller to ask how the coin looked in hand, since I could not make out any detail from the pictures provided. He messages me back AND posts (part of) my question on the auction page to let everybody know that the coin looks great and has no issues. The guy has a 500+ feedback, so despite the bad pictures (that were probably just plucked off the internet) I decide to take a chance and bid. Turns out I win, and the coin comes in the mail a few days later. Unfortunately, the coin that I receive is a corroded piece of garbage that has MAJOR issues. Now, this guy has a no returns on his page (I generally don’t bid from people that don’t except returns) and I sent him a message to say that the coin he sent me is heavily corroded and damaged and was precisely the reason I sent him a message to verify the coins condition. I also studied the picture and coin and despite the fact that the picture was terrible, there is enough detail to conclude that the coin in the photo was a completely different coin. So I told him that I’m initiating a return. He responds back by saying that I swapped coins on him. Which is infuriating, but not far from what I expect from a crook. Anyway, I’m in the waiting period of having ebay settle this issue. It’s the first problem as a buyer or seller on ebay, and although it’s not a massive amount of money, the whole process makes me extremely angry.

For those of you that want to know if I’ve learned my lesson, I have. I don’t hate ebay for this, but this guy had two warning signs. 1. Doesn’t accept returns 2. Terrible pictures. I’m hoping ebay does not side with this crook, but I’ll be a more conscientious bidder from now on.

I don't know CT's rules about posting ebay links or the sellers handle to a forum discussion. The title of the auction was "1797 UNGRADED LARGE CENT WITH STEMS" if you're curious. (Also, if you recognize where he stole that picture from, please PM me.)

 

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Can you post a picture of what you recieved?

 

See, this is what creeps me out about going back to selling on eBay.

@aubade21 has a good reputation here, so we can assume that everything unfolded as he described. Given the seller's terminology ("die mistakes", "stems go all around rim"), we can also assume that the seller doesn't know what he's doing.

But what about a random eBay Buyer Protection customer-service rep, who knows nothing about either individual or about numismatics? There's a buyer who says "I got a coin that wasn't as described", and a seller who said "I sent what I described, the buyer is trying to scam me with a coin swap". How can they tell which side to believe?

From what I've read here and experienced myself, eBay will side with the buyer. But what if the situation were reversed, with one of our well-known members selling a good coin, and an unknown buyer trying to do an actual coin-swap scam? As far as I can tell, there's no way for the seller to defend himself to eBay. That scares the heck out of me.

If I do go back to selling on eBay, I'll post really clear photos (because I have that capability), and I'll have the ability to photograph both the coin I sell and the coin I receive in return. I don't see how this will help, though, because how would eBay know that I'm not scamming them by doing a coin-swap on my end?

Since plenty of people still buy and sell successfully on eBay, I assume this kind of fraud is still the exception rather than the rule. But as long as this loophole is open, eBay will attract more scammers. I'd hate to be caught holding the bag when and if they finally achieve the majority.

 

Please post pics or the link. If CT don't like it they will edit your post.

 

Go to eBay and search for "1797 UNGRADED LARGE CENT WITH STEMS", with the quotes, and it'll turn up as your only result.

 

Easy solution, sell graded coins. If that isnt your thing, place all coins in 2x2s with your handwritten description and clear photos. Explicitly state in your return policy that all items MUST BE IN ORIGINAL HOLDER to be returned. Simple.

That way if its graded, there is no dispute. And if the buyer removed the coin from the holder and actually did do a switch-a-roo, it would be fairly easy to tell.

Clear pictures as a seller would also be a must. If you can provide even remotely decent photos, it would be hard for someone to pull a switch on you.

 

sorry that happened to you, do you still have the coin? Post a picture of the coin you received.

 

That is why I purchased a heat sealer to seal my mylar flips. Easy to tell if opened. Staples can be removed and replaced, so cardboard 2x2s can be violated.

 

Except for the unique handwriting part. I mean its doable, but at least it is SOME protection.

ETA: Excellent idea and alternative though.

Maybe even buy the 2.5x2.5 flips and slide in the 2x2 then heat seal that contraption

 

With practice, the old one can be opened , coin substituted and the original staples reinserted into the same holes

 

Odd, it's not working for me. If it's a completed sale it's not gonna come up.

 

I looked at the listing and was pleasantly surprised by the photo, and with the added note stating no porosity would have expected a problem free coin. This is a prime example of why I only buy certified coins on EBay. It removes most of the risk from both buying and selling.

I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out, that was a nice large cent in the photo and I'd be seriously bummed out if I opened the mail and got a POS...

 

First of all, let me thank an elite forum member (you know who you are) for locating the picture that the seller stole for Tom Deck's website: http://www.largecents.net/collection/coinpics/s141.jpg This coin is in Tom's personal collection and therefore, could not be in the possession of the ebay seller.

Also, here are the pictures of the coins I received in the mail. I have not removed the coin from the plastic baseball card case that was sent to me. Let me know if you notice any difference...



Anyway, I'll know in a few days what ebay decides. For those of you interested in the link / seller, here it is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/131490653679?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Thank you all for your support and advice. While money is a factor in these sorts of situations, what really bugs me is the audacity of some people to try to use ebay as a medium to steal money. I'm just hoping ebay sees this for what it is, fraud, and shuts the seller down from doing this to another collector.

 

Be sure to include the notes about the borrowed image in your case, it will certainly help to prove your side of the case.

 

I can't believe people are that unscrupulous. Sorry this happened to you, please keep us updated on how ebay handles the situation.

 

For what it's worth, your coin is an S137, not the 141 as claimed by the seller.

 

I think the borrowed photo is more than enough to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt. If EBay doesn't straighten it out I would take it to the Federal Trade Commission purely out of principle. This is fraud that was committed across state lines using the US Postal Service.

 

Why do folks support sellers who respect them so little as to stipulate there are no returns? Is it a lack of self-respect?

 

With everything said on here I think OP should have no problems with his return. In fact I would let the seller know that I am aware they used a photo of another coin from someone else's collection and that's a big no-no. I would be surprised if they still put up a fight after that. The fraud perpetrated across state lines and through the mail is another nice bullet to have in the chamber.

Despite the photo switch and misleading description to the question, there was still some room for forgiveness if the seller isn't knowledgable about coins and thought using another photo was an okay thing to do. [Personally this was enough for me to have no mercy on them, but I can see how more lenient folks could be forgiving.] HOWEVER, falsely accussing the buyer of switching the coin makes them SCUM.

Thanks for the info OP. Hope it all works out well for you and bad for the scum seller.

 

Absolutely! Especially about the borrowed image. What a dirt bag. I hope he comes on here and sees all the fallout that was created by him being such a sleaze bag. I'm sure you're gonna win your refund aubade21! I absolutely hate sellers like that cause they make it bad for all of us and I also hate sellers who say no refunds b/c it's not up to them.