A few years ago a made the dedicated choice to collect and study contemporary circulating counterfeits. While there has been some literature on the more common 8 reales and 2 reales CC pieces, not much is out there on these smaller denominations. Just wanted to share the examples I have picked up so far along this journey. I've posted these before individually on CCF and this thread is duplicated on CU. These are all struck from privately made dies and not the later design transfer and/or cast copies. 1782 (MO-FF). The mint mark and assayer are not visible on this coin, but there are a few other examples documented which show it. Weight ~2.72 grams, white metal alloy 1804 (MO-TH). As with the last one, mint/assayer not visible, but a few other documented examples. Very weakly struck, had to photograph it at a sharp angle to the light to clearly capture details. Weight ~2.57 grams, white metal alloy. Undated, likely NG-M. This is the only example I've been able to find of this type, as well as with Guatemala marks in general. One of two types known to me so far which do not bear Mexico mint and assayer marks. Weight ~2.48 grams, white metal alloy. 1809 NR-FJ (fantasy date). Also the only example I could find of this type and with Colombia marks. The second of two types known to me so far which do not bear Mexico mint and assayer marks. Weight ~2 grams, white metal alloy. 1833 (?) Zs-M. One of the more interesting pieces (IMO). The mint mark Z is slanted and the superscript S's all have dots above rather than below. Weight ~2.86, material uncertain. Tests positive for silver on magnetic slide, but may be plated with copper core. This one has an edge design, which is a sequence of rudimentary crescents or partial circles and dots. 10 image limit... last one as comment
1862 Zs-VL. I recently found out some very interesting info regarding this coin (thanks to realeswatcher and swamperbob from CCF for sharing the history). Apparently there was a large cache of 1860's and up cores, stripped of any silver coating, found near the site of an old silver reprocessing plant in Mexico. There were many such locally made crude pieces in copper, as well as some better quality brass pieces identified as European imports. This example seems to be the latter. It also has a rudimentary edge design which looks like donuts. Weight ~2.73 grams, brass.
Neat stuff! They obviously saw extensive circulation. Contemporary counterfeits, while usually not pretty, are almost always interesting, aren't they? While metal detecting here on Saint Simons Island, Georgia, I once found two colonial coins within just a few feet of each other. Both were dated 1782 and both happened to be contemporary counterfeits. A short distance away, on the same site, I also dug a 1779 Spanish 2-reales piece that was not a counterfeit. I affectionately refer to these three pieces as my "Colonial Trio", and have a strong hunch that the two 1782 pieces were dropped at the same time. It's obvious that American pocket change in the late 1700s and early 1800s was quite a hodgepodge of assorted coins from all over the place - some real, some counterfeit. My local relic hunting buddies' finds bear this out. The first of the "Colonial Trio" was this 1782-A French Guiana (Colony of Cayenne) 2-sous piece. I think these were referred to as "black dogs" in the colonial Caribbean. This one happens to be a contemporary counterfeit. With these, as with some kinds of British coppers, I believe the counterfeits outnumber the regal issues, but I don't think there's much difference in the numismatic value today. This trio of dug coins were all metal detecting finds at the site of the old Hampton Plantation on the northern tip of Saint Simons Island. This very historic site was where a live oak tree was cut to make the stern post for the USS Constitution. Aaron Burr stayed there as a guest in 1804 while he was laying low after killing Alexander Hamilton in their infamous duel. A catastrophic major hurricane struck the island while he was here. Just a few feet away from the French Cayenne coin, I found another 1782, this one an Irish "Hibernia" halfpenny. It also happens to be a contemporary counterfeit, which is also common for this type. At the time, the supply of official, regal coinage for small change fell far short of the demands of commerce, so lots of privately-struck imitations like these circulated in the colonies. These two 1782 coins were found so relatively close together that I have a strong hunch they were dropped at the same time, probably from the same pocket. And there's a chance that could have been Aaron Burr's pocket! This is the sort of stuff that was in circulation in 1804 when he was on the site. It's fun to think about. The third coin in my "Colonial Trio" found at Hampton was a 1779 Mexico City 2-reales piece. I thought it was an aluminum key fob or tool check when I first dug it, since it was found right beneath some new wooden stakes marking the corner of some footings being dug for the foundation of a new house that was being built on the site (right next to the crumbling 18th century tabby ruins). It is so well worn and holed I did not see the lettering at first. This one isn't a counterfeit, to my knowledge. I also dug a nice 1929 quarter near the three colonial coins. It was no doubt lost by an earlier visitor who, like me, was exploring the old ruins at Hampton. The next was not a detector find but one I bought from @LostDutchman. It is another 1782 Irish Hibernia halfpenny, also a contemporary counterfeit, and interestingly double-struck. This one was briefly in my "Eclectic Box" collection until I realized I couldn't get it slabbed, even as a counterfeit. It was pretty porous but an undeniably cool coin.
Awesome historical write-up, and a first person point of view too. Doesn't get much better than that. Those are some really nice finds, I'd go back to that site for round two and more
Not sure of the exact alloy, but my best guess is some early form of copper-nickel such as German silver or paktong. They do look silvery individually, but alongside genuine coins there is a difference. That's how I spot them in lots lol
Marvelous post. I live in Mèxico City and with some frecuency see fake coins of this type. I colect them. We see many minor value silver coinage in bad condition going to the melting pott. Obiously reserving the good ones to our colections.
Online info re. Paktong ((an Ni-Cu-Zn alloy) in Chinese is "bai tong", literally meaning "white copper". Also called "German silver" (developed by19th century German metal workers from paktong (cupronickel). Interesting counterfeit coins, which may have been used for buying fruit & veges. But, "Return to Saint Simons Island" (sounds like a new novel !), you might even dig up Vice-President Burr's gun - the one that caused the demise of Hamilton.
Very cool thread. I collect contemporary counterfeits too. All mine however are of US coins plus one of a British trade dollar struck in copper. Would love to add one of these to my collection.
Ah yes I remember you posted some nice pieces previously Pieces like these are out there if you look for them. I think a lot of people just don't notice them or don't realize what they are, so they often get passed on. What's the weight on that 4R? I would not have thought it counterfeit based on the pictures at all. If it's a CC that is quite a rarity as 4R seems to be the most rare denomination. In fact, it's the only denomination of which I have not seen a contemporary circulating counterfeit yet.
There is an excellent book on counterfeit 8 reales. Counterfeit Portrait Eight-Reales, "The Un-real Reales by Robert Gurney. Published by Swamperbob Associates, Hope Hills, NC, USA; September 1, 2014. It includes Die Analysis bly Gordon Nichols, and Material Analysis and Testing done by John Lorenzo. I'd give you the weight, but the coins are in a secure location "bank" for now.
Yes I have that book as well. I was curious because the details on your 4R match genuine examples much too perfectly to be made with technology available at the time it would have circulated. It may not be genuine, but doesn't look like a contemporary circulating (currency) counterfeit. Could very well be a more modern one, but looks quite good if that is the case!
Could be, the 8 and 4 reales have heavy red tone. I'll have another look. Money of necessity struck by Arabs after invasion into Byzantine territory. Struck around 635 or so. The model would have been a follis of Constans II and almost as good as one struck at the mint in Constantinople. No problem though, it kept the occupied territories going till 704 or so when the Arabs developed their own coinage. While not counterfeit, this is a fun 1/4 penny (farthing) token, Perthshire 11): obverse was struck with a half penny die.
Really cool pieces. I wish I knew more about these early ancient through medieval period counterfeits, but simply don't have the experience with such early coins. That's also the first time I've seen something like that with a conder token, thanks again for sharing
See also my latest book - FORGOTTEN COINS OF THE NORTH AMERICAN COLONIES - 25TH ANNIVERSARY. THERE IS A WHOLE CHAPTER ON THESE CCC 2R'S. THE 1/2 & 1R'S ARE MORE RARE! SEE AMAZON BOOKS. JOHN LORENZO
Hopefully your book isn't WRITTEN IN ALL CAPS? I think this post skates along the narrow edge of being a spam violation, but since there is some information offered (albeit commercially), I'll let this one slide. Edit: OK, that came off a little more snarky than I intended it to. Sorry.
