My Beef with Grading Companys....

In my original example, they never signed anything. The person promised services, did nothing, and then accepted payment. In other words, they took advantage of an elderly couple. IMO, the blame is primarily on the criminal not the elderly couple. If you want to side with the criminal, that is your choice.

 

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Many states have passed legislation protecting the elderly because statistics show that diminished mental capacity increases and is commonly a part of the aging process.

Chris

 

OK, then they gave them cash. Elsewise, they signed something. Point is still the same. They agreed because they paid. Unless the "sweep" held a gun to their head, their payment was a voluntary action by the couple conveying their agreement with the work. If they did not know that the "sweep" did nothing, they have no business contracting with anyone and it is your responsibility to insure they don't do it. The way to do that is not to go around cleaning up after them. You have to keep them from getting into the mess to begin with.

BTW, don't read this to say the "sweep" is blameless.

 

If I contracted a person to lay 2 inch blacktop and sign an inspection form after the job is completed and later discover in a reasonable time frame that only 1 of blacktop was laid - yes I still have legal remedies.

 

I think Chris' comment is highly relevant here, so I will cite in response:

Many states have passed legislation protecting the elderly because statistics show that diminished mental capacity increases and is commonly a part of the aging process.

Chris

 

That doesn't make it right, it just means that politicians know that elderly people vote.

 

And that shows what? That they should not be signing contracts. That is just what I have been saying. It is easier to prevent it from happening than it is to clean it up later.

 

Sorry, but I was typing as you were typing. Roger, boss.

 

I wish you would, I have felt like a rubbernecker since about page 3.

 

Yes, if it was hidden from your inspection. How is a grade hidden from someone who has ample opportunity to look at it? That is my point. If its not hidden, the seller has done his job. If he calls it BU, it could be XF or MS68 according to TPG, I don't care. The seller showed the buyer the goods, the buyer inspected, end of story. Its not the sellers fault if the buyer cannot grade.

Edit: Typing while notice posted too. Stopping now.

 

yes he knows and loves me and look where that has gotten me

 

If I purchase a coin from a dealer that is represented as BU – then I am not buying the coin “as is”, I am buying the coin as represented. If the dealer has signs posted in his shop stating all sales of coins are “as is” does not give a dealer carte-blanche toto sell miss-graded coins. It doesn’t matter whether I buy the coin sight unseen or spend 4 hours inspecting the coin before making the purchase. I have the reasonable expectation to receive a product as represented. Dealers certainly have the right to grade coins and sell them in accordance to their own established standards but in doing so these standards must be conveyed clearly to the other parties of the contract. If this proprietary standard uses terminology but relaxes the meaning of what is generally recognized and utilized within the industry then the dealer has an even higher responsibility of conveying these new definitions to other parties of the contract. These responsibilities extend beyond the principles to any future 3rd parties of the original contract.

 

there has to be something more forget the others but both ngc and pcgs are sold sight unseen so people do have some sort of understanding and confidence in them and a buyer could easily benchmark either of them as a standard for their coins.

 

And the biggest problem with our hobby continues. At least the PCGS made huge advances in a standardization of grading. It's a lot better than people writing their opinion on the cardboard flip. Heck, they even post a complete set of pics available to anyone on-line to compare your coins to. But when the grading gets to a very high point, where value is greatly affected by the difference between a MS68 to a MS66, there will always be problems. As other threads have shown, AT, laser polishing, etc become a part of the scene. I agree in my opinion that it will never be perfect, but I think it is getting better. At least from what I am reading. Of course, it doesn't affect us Junk Collectors much.

 

I wish you were correct, but

I wish you were, but I must sadly state that standards appear to be slipping, and as GD has correctly insinuated, there appears to be such great latitude that buyers will virtually purchase anything, especially when graded by the "premier" TPG. In the past, a MS65 coin was virtually non-existent, and arguments often arose as to whether a coin was AU or MS. Today premier TPG outrageously grade large quantities of coins at MS69/MS70, which when offered at bullion value, have gone without bids. These TPG have gotten so outlandish in their grading that they are "splitting" grades by offering refined grading in a specific grade, and dealers are commanding higher prices for same. Dealers are demanding greater prices when a premier TPG graded coin is "accepted" as proper by a secondary certification. I can still remember the ridicule ACG (AH) received when a coin was given a grade with emphasis on attributes/features, and critics were incredulous about a grade being split. Where are those critics now when their "cash cow" has been found producing greater profits for the same grade. My diminished opinion of the premier TPG was further reduced when I recently purchased an "unseen" scarce date PR70 at a great premium , which shouldn't need to be "sight seen", and it had an obvious flawed finish. In my humble understanding, a PR70 graded coin is to be "flawless", not a PR69.*. I'm sorry folks, but I'm certain you'd have a cold chance in Hell getting any relief in a court, if I represented a seller accused of improper grading, resulting in loss of value. GD has honestly presented the truth in proper fashion. Regardless of how we would prefer, grading is still an unestablished Art, which we best accept until an international standard is established. Please, be patient with the messenger, and accepting/understanding of the message. THATS ALL FOLKS!! :w8v4:

 

Or, heaven forbid, do not pay outrageous sums for tiny little grade differences. I never understood why someone would want 1 MS65 dollar instead of 10 MS63 ones.

Seems silly to me, but that is why I don't collect uncirculated US coins anymore.