I agree...I see coins selling for less than the cost of their slabs all the time...which makes me wonder why folks bother getting these things slabbed at all. A slab (imo) does two (2) things... 1. It provides some level of protection to the coin while allowing the owner to handle/view the coin. 2. It provides a level of "securitization" of the coin...meaning, it makes it more easily marketed...if one was to sell the coin. When I can buy high quality, modern slabbed coins for less than the slabbing costs (or slabbing costs plus bullion value), I feel like I've bought a "free" coin. I'm not saying I'm right thinking that way, but there may be other CT folks that may think the same way and would like to hear some more discussion on the subject (myself included).
Whoever said what is the difference between a 69 and 70 is the number on the slab is correct IMO. Many people say it is ridiculous to pay the premium for these, but I'm not too sure about that. I don't do it, but to each their own. One thing is doesn't then a person buy the slab instead of the coin? On CT we say that is a no-no. On CT don't we say buy the highest grade you can afford, I guess that means if one can afford a 70 they should buy it. What is the value of a set of MS 70 ASEs compared to MS 69? What is the difference between the Buffalo Fractionals in 70 compared to 69? Neither of these would I want to decide I was going to start collecting them now in '70, but at their origin if one had started their increase in value is substantial. Same with the silver state quarters All this to me is one can discuss and disagree with fairly valid points whatever their point of view is. It just boils down to what is important to each individual and how deep their pockets are.
The only way I would buy these modern high grade slabs is if I could sell them (flip) at a profit. I had an interesting discussion w/ a dealer a show a few months back. I had bought many coins from this dealer in the late 70's through the late 80's. I told him that I was kinda getting interested again and shopping around for a few things. I brought up the modern slab ms and proof 69 and 70's and how I thought they may be comparable to the old 73 brown ikes (bidding at $130) on the greysheet at the time. Or the great comm hype that blew up in a bad way in the 80's. He agreed (to my surprise) even though he had plenty of this type of coins on his table. He said you carry what the public wants and people want this stuff because of the hype, mainly from tv. He said it was a good market, but he would not hold on to any for himself. He asked what types of things I had aquired and what I was collecting now. Thought I was pretty smart about buy some nicer old stuff, but nothing w/an astronomical price. Stcik with the tried and true he advised and you probably be happy. people can buy their proof 70 pennies or whatever, I'll just get the proof set. 10 years from now I have a feeling they may wish they had done the same. Lack
Well I took the low road.......yep my slabed ASE are all MS-68! Yeppers I got a very nice set for less cost and how many MS-68 sets you ever see? So to those who think grading bullion coins thats cool but I'll stick to being happy with all my ms 68's ! Paddy
I think the difference in grade depends on whether the grader had a "big mac" or a "whopper" for lunch the day that the coin was graded.....
"""And to think all this over coins not meant for circulation, coins that should not be graded as it relates to made for commerce coins, coins that never do circulate and coins that all are MS-67 or higher to begin with - my goodness"""!
I like this approach even though I don't own ANY slabbed ASE's. If one were to take a good look at population figures I'll bet there are less slabbed 68s than 69s and probably less than many of the 70s. Therefore you have assembled a "rare set".
The only rare aspect of these coins is the fact more likely than not they are the only coins that grade that have been assigned that grade, that will never appreciate any significant numismatic value over the initial cost. They are nice to look at, but thats about it. I'm not putting anyone down for collecting them, if that's what they choose to do. I just think they might have had a better chance with other more promising prospects.
In the case of the 1999 Delaware silver quarter, I can't detect any type of damage, panchet flaw, or strike through on the MS69s I own. I believe the graders see "something" that differentiates an MS69 from an MS70. Does anyone know what that "something" might be? :secret: I suspect there must be an issue with the MS69 coin's "strike". If that's the case, are there some characteristics the Graders look for when assigning a grade? That information would be helpful when deciding which coins to submit. I guess that's the question I'm trying to ask...what does an NGC Grader need to see before assigning an MS70 grade?
Yup, we do say that. BUT - you just knew there was gonna be that but in there didn't you ? But - please tell me what coins you have ever seen that were graded as MS70 when the coin was not a modern bullion coin or a modern commem ? I'll bet ya can't find one. And until they came out with the satin finish coins you would be hard pressed to find some graded MS69. They are verrrrrrrrrry few and far between. Yeah you can find plenty of PF70 graded coins - but you would expect to find Proofs that are as close to perfect as you can get. BUT - there's that but again - just try finding even one that is dated earlier than the 1960s. Again, I'll bet you can't. I guess the point I am making is that when we say buy the best coin you can afford, we are talking about coins. We are not talking about Non Circulating Legal Tender. And you simply are not going to find coins that are graded MS70 because none exist. So the point you made is moot.
I sell the 70s and keep a 69. What happens when that 70 grows a spot or two ?? There is a difference between a 69/70 on modern coins, usually a small planchet mark or two. JMO
LMAO! ...so if I resubmit an MS69 under the "Unlimited Value WalkThrough" tier, it should come back in an MS70 slab? :secret:
Obviously, then it is no longer a 70. But you have to be careful about what you call a "spot". A spot of toning will not alter the grade. A spot caused by environmental contamination (like a droplet of saliva or other liquid), or a newly developed carbon spot - those will alter the grade.
That is really so true that I sometimes look and almost fall down laughing. I've seen coins in slabs that are selling for $5 or less. Something is really wrong with this slabbing thing.
The "something" that is really wrong with the grading thing is coin collectors who support it and spend money with TPG companies. As a company they are a great success because as I have said over and over on CoinTalk it's the perfect American ideal of a company. Start by creating a product, then create demand for the product, then keep re-inventing your product, (to keep it fresh), push your product to the front every chance you can, dominate the press and publishing areas of your interest and sell by illusion a product that is not really needed in the first place. A perfect company always gets consumers to pay for very little, or things they could have done themselves. It is we, (maybe not you or I) but we, coin collectors that are "the something really wrong with this slabbing thing"!
So true and I will, at some point, fall prey to the TPGs on a larger scale. Why? because if something happens to me my wife has enough knowledge, I have enough contacts to help her sell and I realize a better coin WILL most likely get better money in a slab. There will be no slabbing of moderns though. Bullion is bullion.
