MS69 vs. MS70

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by yakpoo, Mar 2, 2010.

  1. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    I'm on eBay buying PCGS 2010 ASEs bullion coins...(dunno why, really). I bought an MS69 "First Strike" for $25...which I thought was a good buy considering the $14 grading fee (or the $10 bulk fee).

    I then bought an MS70 "First Strike" ASE for $75. The only reason I didn't use that $$ to buy three (3) more MS69's is because I have at least one of the other dates in MS70 and wanted to keep the MS70 collection going.

    While doing this, a question came to mind...

    What "typically" sets an MS69 coin apart from an MS70? :confused:
    What should I look for to appreciate the extra $$ I spent?

    When I look at these coins, I don't see the difference. Is it the strike of the coin? If so, are there specific characteristics a grader looks for when deciding between these grades?

    Specifically, I only need the Delaware quarter to complete my NGC PF70 UCAM Silver State Quarter collection. I can't afford $3000+ for a graded specimen. I'm trying to buy proof sets @$200+ each and "hope" I stumble upon one. Are there any specific characteristics I should look for when deciding which coins to submit for grading?

    I really appreciate any help the CT Gurus can offer. :bow:
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  3. bqcoins

    bqcoins Olympic Figure Skating Scoring System Expert

    there is such a microscopic difference between 68 69 and 70 there is no use in buying ultra high grades. It is useless, perfection and near perfection can barely be told apart. When you need an "expert" to say this coin is perfect you've already lost. Besides, IMO modern ultra high grade coins are going to at the front wave of the next coin market crash, the way slabbed morgans were back in the 80's.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  4. bhp3rd

    bhp3rd Die varieties, Gems

    The real difference in PCGS MS-69 or MS-70 is "fairy dander" and "power dealers" who submit boxes of the stuff and get a token MS-70 for thier trouble. Kind of like Cracker Jacks don't you know? Before you jump it's just my take only - it costs what you pay for it!!
    Oh, there is one more big difference and it's called who's gonna bite today when it come to the asking price.
    Irem, 19Lyds and Kip Caven like this.
  5. Just Carl

    Just Carl Numismatist

    You must be fairly new to this forum otherwise you would have seen many posts about FIRST STRIKE COINS. That is really a true, honest to goodness, utterly rediculous statement. In order for a coin to really be first strike anything, someone would have had to be right there and grabbed that coin hot of the presses. Not sure but I thought that that statement was not being used anymore. Might be wrong but should be if not.
    And the difference between an MS-69 and -70 is similar to the difference between an MS-68.9475993 and a MS-68.9475992 approximately. :D
  6. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    I an extent. I'm not saying it makes sense, but some level of demand for registery sets will always be there.

    With silver @$16.50/Oz and grading fees @$14.00 (forget about S&H), I think $30 is a fair price to pay for an MS69 ASE. I can get NGC/PCGS MS69 2010 ASEs (Early Release/First Strike) ALL DAY LONG for $25 each. That seems to be a reasonable value (imho).
  7. Ladies First

    Ladies First Since 2007

    The real difference is $50.
    Irem likes this.
  8. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    Compared to you I am a Nube to CT. :eek:dd:

    "First Strike" and "Early Release" are ridiculous! ...but given the same price, I'll take the coin with it rather than without it.
    Seattlite86 and midas1 like this.
  9. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    I have never paid a premium for any MS70 or PR70 coins because I can find MS69/PR69 coins that look perfect to me, even under a 10x loupe, usually for a fraction of the price. I think the 70s only really matter to folks who compete at the top of the set registries and who have the money to pay for a top ranking. Otherwise, it just doesn't make too much sense to pay that premium.

    There was a 1995-W PCGS PR70DCAM (only the second one graded 70 by PCGS) on Teletrade last night and the reserve was $40,000 (plus another $6000 in buyer's premium). I can't think of any reason other than Registry competition that someone would pay $46k for that coin when a "perfect" PR69DCAM can be bought for less than $3k. Heck, you could buy 15 69DCAMs instead of that one 70!!

    In short, if you can't tell the difference between a 69 or a 70, you really need to ask yourself why on earth would you ever pay a premium for something you can't see!! Would you ever pay a huge premium for a minor repunched mintmark, or a minor DDO variety that you couldn't even see with a 10x loupe??? Most likely not and that's why those minor varieties are usually worth very little premium.
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  10. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The number on the label. To a large extent they are interchangeable and most of the time if you were to crack out the 70 and resubmit it would come back as a 69, and sometimes, but less often, the 69 would come back as a 70.
  11. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    ...and 20 years from now you could probably resubmit those 15 MS69 coins and get a couple of MS70s out of the bunch!
  12. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Yes - registry set might keep the prices up. Yes - I usually get around to buying MS69 and PR69 for my set. I can't tell the difference between most 69's and 70's. The only thing I can add is the grader saw something to make it a 69, but I do not know what. And please point out any PCGS 1995 W PR69's for less than 3k. I have yet to see one - even raw. I admit I have not been looking lately, but I did pretty routinely last year and the year before. And for 46k it would have to be a registry set buy - no other reason than that.
  13. illini420

    illini420 1909 Collector

    the prices on these dropped significantly in the last year or so. as of last month, greysheet bid on them was $2650 and I think ask was $2725. Seen many at shows, Heritage and on eBay in PCGS 69 holders go for less than $3k. The famous BNB who used to post here bought his at the end of last year for around $2500 I think and just sold it last month for around $2800 on eBay. I even saw the entire 1995-W 5 coin set w/ the gold sell for under $5000 a few times on eBay towards the end of last year before the proof gold premiums skyrocketed.
  14. mark_h

    mark_h Somewhere over the rainbow

    Boy that is almost a $1000 dollar drop from the last time I was looking real hard. And the last time I saw one at a show it was like 4500. I was just checking ebay and it seems the 69's range from 2800 to 4500. I did not see a PCGS 70, but there was an NGC 70 for a mere 12495 - oh and don't forget the free shipping. I think I will still skip looking for one of this until my ship load of gold arrives. I don't mind $30, but can't justify 3k just for my registry set.
  15. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    IMO bullion is bullion. I'd be just fine buying a raw ASE rather than a MS69 or a MS70 for any kind of premium.
    If you can get MS69's for a price that is the same of a raw one, that is fantastic! But I wouldn't advise putting too much of a premium into 69's let alone the 70's!
    There is virtually no difference in a 69 and a 70, and it has been said many times that every coin has a flaw, and there is no such thing as a 70.
    First Strike and Early Release don't deserve any premium at all, just more modern crap, and a way for the grading companies to make some cash.
    I think if you completely stop buying 70's then you'd have some money for that Delaware quarter. :D
    Seattlite86 likes this.
  16. chip

    chip Novice collector

    Remember the story of the emperors new clothes? I think that might be a similar sort of thing as far as buying something you cannot see.
  17. Space 4 Rent

    Space 4 Rent Uber-Collector

    I would wholeheartedly agree with that statement. To pay a premium on top of that for 'First Day / Strike" is just ridiculous IMO.

    Of course it goes without saying that I may have a few things in my collection that others would feel the same way towards.
  18. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    You mean I have to stop buying FS coins to get my Delaware!? :crying:
  19. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    You really need to get over the idea that the cost of slabbing a coin adds anything to its value. It just isn't true. You can buy slabbed coins all day long for less than it cost to slab them.
  20. mpcusa

    mpcusa "Official C.T. TROLL SWEEPER"

    I have several PR69 Coins to get a 70 in each would about tripple the cost
    Doesnt make much sense on that end!!
  21. coleguy

    coleguy Coin Collector

    That would seem reasonable, until you consider the people getting these graded aren't paying $14 a coin for grading. Or even half that price. They submit in bulk and get a major discount. Thats how I get coins graded with priority service for $ friend's shop submits about 500-1200 coins a month at rock bottom rates. There are a lot of factors that you have to consider realistically before thinking you're getting a great deal. You got a decent deal, without a doubt, but not a great one, as anyone can get the same.
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