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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Lehigh96, post: 1410543, member: 15309&quot;]They are not treated as bullion and they certainly have numismatic value.&nbsp; The auction description which includes the Krause Price guide demonstrates that fact.&nbsp; A bullion coin would not trade for double the price from VF to UNC. </p><p><br /></p><p>Description:</p><p>Christian IX gold 20 Kroner 1890, KM791.1, MS65 NGC, popular mermaid type. AGW 0.2593 oz. Krause catalog price(s) for this item: $275 in VF, $420 in EF, $550 in UNC.</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f1%2f9%2f7%2f7197871.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&amp;scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&amp;source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&amp;sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /><img src="http://images.ha.com/lf?source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fnewnames%2f300%2f7%2f1%2f9%2f7%2f7197872.jpg%5d%2ccontinueonerror%5btrue%5d&amp;scale=size%5b450x2000%5d%2coptions%5blimit%5d&amp;source=url%5bfile%3aimages%2finetpub%2fwebuse%2fno_image_available.gif%5d%2cif%5b%28%27global.source.error%27%29%5d&amp;sink=preservemd%5btrue%5d" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p>Furthermore, you act like counting machine marks are so common that every time you run a coin through one, the marks will magically appear.&nbsp; If these marks are caused by counting machines, then I have seen more counting machine marks on 19th century Danish gold 20 Kroner in this thread than I have seen in all my years collecting coins.&nbsp; And you use the terms plausible and likely, what a joke!</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Uh, yes you did.&nbsp; These are your words quoted directly from post #44 in this thread.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>You specifically pointed to the fact that the marks going in different directions precludes the possibility that they were roller marks.&nbsp; If you are now claiming that none of the other coins have marks in multiple directions then you can&#039;t possibly employ the logic that the similarities in the markings precludes the possibility that they are roller marks.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p><br /></p><p>The apparent similarities in the markings merely suggests that they were caused by the same process.&nbsp; Your claim is that they are PMD.&nbsp; The similarities that you have pointed out make it extremely unlikely that the markings were caused by an individual and suggest that they were caused by a mechanized process.&nbsp; You seem to be hanging your hat on counting machines whereas I think they are roller marks.&nbsp; I have news for you, I am never going to believe that someone running 19th century Danish gold through counting machines is more likely than roller marks which are known to have plagued gold coins of this era across different countries.&nbsp; Furthermore, your theory is dependent upon the assumption that nobody at NGC knows what counting machine marks look like and can&#039;t attribute them properly.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I have not changed my mind at all.&nbsp; I said that my theory was that the marks on the coin posted by the OP were caused by roller marks.&nbsp; I also stated that I could not be sure because I had not seen the coin in hand and that from the photo, the marks appeared to be to severe to be roller marks.&nbsp; I then posted a photo of another Danish 20 Kroner that I was 100% sure (my opinion) displayed roller marks.&nbsp; As for your little psychobabble, of course I don&#039;t know for sure, but neither do you.&nbsp; This is a debate about something that neither person can prove.&nbsp; All we can do is present our opinions.&nbsp; When I say 100% sure, I mean that I believe what I say to be true without a doubt.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Ouch, I just fell off my chair and hit my head.&nbsp; Are you really trying to claim that you keep and open mind?&nbsp; WOW!&nbsp; Let&#039;s take a look at your open mindedness during this thread shall we:</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Only after I posted my first example of a Danish 20 Kroner showing roller marks (post #33) did you soften you stance just a little.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>And now you are open to the possibility that the marks were caused by a roller.&nbsp; Seems that posting examples does change your mind!&nbsp; Is it your contention that the marks on all of the new examples that I posted were caused by counting machines?</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>If this is true, then you should be able to provide examples of many 19th century European gold coins with similar markings.&nbsp; Or did the counting machines conspire only to damage Danish 20 Kroner?</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>I agree but there are some series that are plagued by obvious roller marks, $4 Stellas for instance.&nbsp; And while I showed some examples of Danish 20 Kroner with these marks, there are plenty that exist without them.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Ouch, fell off my chair again.&nbsp; Your little gimmick of telling those that disagree with you to keep and open mind is so lame.&nbsp; You did it to PrinceofWaldo in post #12 and have done it twice to me in one post.&nbsp; The truth is that I have kept and open mind and demonstrated that throughout the course of this thread.&nbsp; If you want proof, here are two quotes from my post #39:</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>The problem is Doug that you equate and open mind to agreeing with you.&nbsp; Perhaps you should work on that![/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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