MS 67/Seriously?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Sley, Feb 14, 2021.

  1. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Tell that to PCGS when they bump grades for monster toning. Toning does affect the market grade, and that's the business these TPGs are in. I think you mean it doesn't affect the technical or condition grade, and that's correct.
     
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  3. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    How about this Seated Half I came across browsing on EBay. This is the Coin Facts picture of it, so we know it had the big obverse paw print when it was slabbed. It also has a gold CAC sticker. Am I the only one who thinks it’s too ugly to pay 5 or 6 figures for?

    https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1854-o-50c-arrows/6280

    C7036B4D-8ACF-4C0C-83DB-F9D5AD16A0A5.jpeg
     
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  4. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    Looks to me as if the buyer bought the slab and it's endorsements, not the coin.
     
  5. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    Of course not. Who cares about the coin if the plastic says 67 and there’s a green sticker attached...?
     
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  6. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    ...67 or not, it’s ugly as sin.
     
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  7. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Which makes me question where these market graders are. What goes up must come down. If they can upgrade for the market for eye-appealing toning they can just as well downgrade for ugly toning. Thus, as a technical matter, unless their published standards are but double-talk, PCGS (...and CAC, on this one) seriously thinks the eyeballs in their market don’t see this toning as a big drawback. If they did, they’d downgrade the market grade from its technical grade. But they didn’t. But then, we’re not the pros. Go on...
     
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  8. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Question: Is market grading the fault of the graders or due to the pressure put upon them by the submitters with deep pockets?
     
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  9. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    As this coin proves, you can find plenty of undesirable coins with CAC stickers on them.
     
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  10. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Both, in my view, if the graders cave to it. Could it be any other way? We hold them both, or we accept the BS. That’s the choice. In coins, as well as politics, for that matter.
     
  11. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast Supporter

    I stopped by the LCS yesterday and he had an 1888 O VAM (Scareface) that he popped out of a display (I believe one of 5 for each mint). The reverse has a donut toning...like a wine glass stain on a tablecloth. The coin was BU. Many might shrug at a stained/oddly toned coin, but sometimes getting past it lets you see something of value. 13391862rev_1.jpg (914×1200) (lccoins.com)
     
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  12. Sley

    Sley Active Member

    That's my thinking, exactly.
     
  13. Sley

    Sley Active Member

    This coin you posted looks like a Denali compared that quarter in question. We can see the detail amongst the toning. You can't see much of anything on that quarter, as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  14. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast Supporter

    And worth a few thousand more too! ;-)
     
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  15. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    I think my 1860-S Seated Liberty Quarter might be at least MS63, thoughts? IMG_3976.JPG IMG_3978.JPG
    And here's the punch line.... [sad trombone] Hey, I still like it, it is what it is. IMG_3977.JPG
     
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  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The tonings just making it look bad. There's a lot of examples out there that look like that in pictures including another one that was auctioned tonight as an NGC CAC. PCGS, CAC and NGC aren't all putting trash at the high end of the scale. Washingtons are notorious for having flat detail
     
  17. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    In the current market it seems there is a premium placed on original toning by PCGS and CAC even if it is butt ugly like the quarter. I would be afraid of the market eventually shifting toward coins that have been attractively dipped or lightly cleaned, versus original but ugly. It’s one thing to spend 100 bucks on a turd with the right label for a registry set, but quite another to spend 4 or 5 figures. For that money I would want something that blows me away. Why should an UNC details with light hairlines sell for a bigger discount than something with ugly toning? Neither are representative of what the coin looked like coming off the press.
     
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  18. MIGuy

    MIGuy Well-Known Member

    Amen KSorbo - If I'm paying for MS65 - I want to see what I believe is MS65 - and that is pretty nice. I'd rather have a decent looking cleaned coin than a butt ugly one at a much lower grade that isn't cleaned for the same price. Here's a good example of that - 1923sslqobv1.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2021
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  19. KSorbo

    KSorbo Well-Known Member

    Unlike the OP coin, I can actually see the design on yours.
     
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  20. iontyre

    iontyre Active Member

    I'm amazed no one has yet mentioned the obvious - that quarter was part of a 1951 mint set and remained in the simple cardboard holder for many years, acquiring the toning that these coins tended to get over time. Sure the toning looks horrible, but the actual state of the coin's details remain uncirculated, and as PCGS has determined by close examination, commensurate with a grade of MS67. CAC clearly agrees.
     
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  21. Kevin Mader

    Kevin Mader Fellow Coin Enthusiast Supporter

    I essentially made that reference when referring to the 5 piece Morgan set/Scarface. To your point, it is what it is ignoring the distraction in appearance. TPG and CAC agree.
     
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