Mountain not a courtyard?

I thought this Antoninus Pius coin that has just sold in the Leu auction might interest a few members, I know dougsmit has a nice one, it represents what is commonly thought to be a courtyard leading to a temple with trees both sides in Zeugma. This coin is the only one that I have seen that contradicts that perception in what looks like a path winding up a mountain or hill with maybe buildings up each side and below (township). And below my two coins approx 100 years later, it seems the whole concept has been neatened up giving the impression of courtyard?
Zeugma in Commagene. Philip I (Black) and Philip II AE 28/29 Butcher 31 and 31c Any thoughts?

 

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Very interesting AP @Ancient Aussie. My first thought about the "path" was that it was a flow of lava until I read your post. I will be most interested in what others have to say.

 

Interesting speculation. Another weird thing is the obverse inscription -- it reads counter-clockwise.

 

yup that's a purdy nice coin and kool story and wicked reverse AA

 

Are you speculating that over time, the engravers lost sight of the original intention and/or that misperceptions led to the significant change? Sounds interesting and believable, like the visual analog of the old game of "Gossip". Have you gone through catalogs to see other earlier versions of these Zeugma temple coins?

 

Very neat cool. My first thought was a serpent but idk

 

That will take some thought. I have not seen anything like it. Mine is not all that nice.

 

You have to be careful. The ancients looked at perspective very different than we do. It was perfectly reasonable to compose scenes with elements that could not be seen together in reality. Price and trell’s ‘coins and their cities” is a great book and, of interest here, has a nice introduction to the ancient concept of perspective on coins.

 

Not so much speculating over time, but if you could imagine if you were living in those times in about that 100 year period because you know the hill and structure surrounds well you could portray it in a whole lot of different ways and everybody in those times would know what it was. As far as searching catalogues not so much but acsearch brings up a lot mostly to worn to show the so called path except this one.
now these coins usually sell reasonably cheap but there was a lot of interest in the Leu example a few hours ago selling for 420 CH.

 

I think it is quite nice with a lot of detail, maybe the path on the right of yours and trees to the left, there also seems to be two types one with a flat roof temple and your type gable roof.

 

I noticed that feature on the coin and thought it was really cool.

These entries in the RPC online database show that even within Pius's reign, the depictions on the coins were not uniform. Some show the "colonnaded peribolos containing grove" going right up to the temple, and others show it going up to the foot of a hill on top of which sits the temple. Some show the pathway through the 'grove', and others do not.

 

I used to read in the literature that is was a courtyard. If so, it would be a very unusual use of perspective. I have studied the matter and the use of perspective in which the near side of a rectangle is longer than the far side is rare on ancient coins. I started a thread about perspective in June 2016 CT:

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/perspective.279926/

Now I don't think the OP Philip coins show a temple with a rectangular enclosure with columns around, rather a mountaintop temple with staircases up the sides.

Butcher in Coinage in Roman Syria describes it "Tetrastyle temple containing seated statue of Zeus(?), facing, on rocky hill. Buildings at base and colonnades or steps up the sides.

Here is my Otacilia Severa example:



29 mm. 16.65 grams.
Zeugma.
Butcher CRS Zeugma 31b "probably struck at Antioch."
Sear Greek Imperial 4056
Lindgren III 11323a

 

Nice I think most were pretty roughly rendered like the celator was in a hurry, that's why I think for the issue Doug's one seems to hold the most interest.

 

It's good to see other's have his book, fantastic read.

 

Interesting if steps probably rules out path, maybe a river or stream.

 

Just received this Pius Zeugma coin yesterday from Ken Dorney (in record time 10 days), although Ken has touted this coin as rare probably because the head orientation combined with the A on reverse, I didn't purchase for that reason, my main motive was the overall condition of the coin with a clear path leading up the mountain/hill. Thanks Ken, you must have known that.
Antoninus Pius, 138 - 161 AD
AE Diassarion, Commagene, Zeugma Mint, 23mm, 10.26 grams
Obverse: Laureate head of Antoninus right.
Reverse: Tetrastyle temple on hill with structures at base and up either side and a path going up, A in right field.
RPC Online 5752
The second known example, the other in the Biblioteque Nationale.

 

I just noticed one very much like yours dougsmit, with the path up the other side like yours.
OMMAGENE.ZEUGMA.Antoninus Pius AD 138-161.AE. ( 5.86g, 19.3mm, 12h )

Laurate, bearded bust right of Antoninus Pius.
Reverse.ZEY(ΓMATEΩN), temple with four colums before colonnaded peribolos.
Ref:RPC-online.-
Very fine.

 

Lol, that's cool & never seen it before.

I have seen a Roman Republic with "Mat" on it, had a worn one for a while but ended up being trade material. Turns out it was a bit rare.