Most Expensive British Coin

One would think the Brexit vote would have taken the air out of British hammered gold coins, not to mention the more modern rarities like an Edward VIII Sovereign. Yet to date, prices seem to be holding up rather well primarily because potential sellers of the better material are so spooked by the Brexit vote. What had been a robust market with many rarities appearing at auction with ever higher prices realized, has essentially vanished with all of the good stuff remaining locked inside the owner's safe deposit boxes instead.

That's the interesting thing about truly rare coins, unlike the stock market where volume dramatically increases as prices decline, rare coins simply stop trading altogether in many cases, sometimes for generations, until a better market is available for their dispersal.

 

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I certainly can't speak for anyone else here, but my most valuable coin accounts for 2-3% of my net worth, and I have a few of those (well, that's the most I've spent on a coin. I think my actual most valuable coin is 4% of my net worth, which is a different coin). My collection accounts for 27% of my net worth.

This is really not an unrealistic scenario. I'm not going to divulge actual numbers, but both of these figures are within tolerance of my situation.

 

I would guess that's probably around the average for most people with an individual coin. It's a lot easier to have a decent chunk tied up in a collection as a whole and I would think your percentages probably aren't all that far off from the average collector. We all have probably stretched on some coins from time to time but for the most part stay within the ranges we can comfortably afford.

It certainly can and does happen as people have different levels of tolerance for how much is tied up in one item or how much they are willing to put on credit. I didn't mean for it to sound impossible, I was more making the point that if that type of buyer left that segment of the market it probably wouldn't make much of a difference as the average buyer at that level has a higher net worth.

In the case of the coin for this thread when you talk about 500k plus coins I would be willing to bet the average buyer at those levels is the 1 percent of the 1 percent, people with 10s of millions where outside economic conditions that the rest of us are greatly impacted by don't generally mean a whole lot to them. Sure it can reorder their wealth or increase or decrease it but they generally have enough money their families are set for generations.

 

I don't think you realize how hard maintained wealth actually is. Do a web search of the richest people in American history, very few of those families managed to maintain it. Per wikipedia:

1. John D. Rockefeller
2. Cornelius Vanderbilt
3. John Jacob Astor
4. Stephen Girard
5. Andrew Carnegie
6. Bill Gates
7. A.T. Stewart
8. Frederick Weyerhäuser

With the exception of maybe Rockefeller, i don't think any of those fortunes remain, and the Rockefeller fortune is a fraction of what it once was. Dynastic wealth that sets up generations is extremely tough to achieve and maintain.

 

Most give a large chunk away towards the end of their life or donate to projects that are important to them. Whether their wealth is from the 1800s or the 2000s though doesn't change the fact that people buying 500k plus coins have tons of money. Whether they chose to donate it, use it on projects, or pass it on is entirely up to them.

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...n-of-edward-viii/story-fni6uo1m-1226914502275

It appears the coin was purchased as part of a 'coin fund' so it would be the investors in the fund who'd be paying for it.

Mr Lott and company owner Mark Manning purchased the coin to add to the Regal Coin Fund which is currently being launched as an addition to the Regal Group.

https://mbasic.facebook.com/RegalPa...18943.484199591625042/757748030936862/?type=1

Mark Manning of Regal Pawn Ltd (based near Chester) which is the home of the global TV show PAWN STARS UK on the History Channel, today broke the world record for the purchase of a British coin when he paid £523,000 for the Edward VIII gold sovereign. Jordan Lott (our resident coin expert) was live at the auction making bids on Mark’s behalf. The coin has been purchased to add to the Regal Coin Fund which is currently being launched as an addition to the Regal Group and specifically under the banner of Regal Rare Coins Ltd. Jordan Lott (CEO Regal Rare Coins Ltd) says The Regal Coin Fund will be a unique investment opportunity and having this sovereign as part of that fund is an unprecedented coup.

Yet, oddly

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/mystery-over-closure-flintshire-firm-9701533

And at Britain's Companies House, where the official records of British business are kept.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08450436/filing-history

Regal Rare coins, Director Mark Manning, has been dissolved.

There is no record I can find easily of a new Regal Rare Coins

Regal Pawn Ltd. Has been dissolved by compulsory strike off yesterday.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08293390/filing-history

It would appear that there is a lot more to this than any one rich person buying a coin at an inflated price because they can.

It is not simple to say just exactly what all this adds up to, or what has happened to this sovereign, or indeed if it was actually paid for, but it does seem pretty clear that both more and a lott less to this story than at first sight.

 

Viceroy coins is a limited company with a share capital of £100 that has not filed any accounts yet.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09847566/officers



Would you buy a used coin from this man?

 

Not really related to this except by Pawn Stars, this was interesting, especially the bit I quote.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stomer-sorry-turned-coin-collection-gold.html

Silver & Gold's spokesperson, Laura Herlovich said coins are usually in plastic cases with a value already assigned to them by an expert.

She added: 'If the grader is not someone we trust, the cases are cracked open and the coins are sent out to be melted down.

'That was the case here. I don't know for sure, but I believe a majority were melted down. They weren't worth what he [Walters] thought they were worth.'

Wow! Unbelievable!

 

That photo is also his profile image, right. Let's not get personal here. Besides, would I "buy" a story because, of all rags, the Daily Mail published it?

Christian

 

I agree with doubts about the Daily Mail but the companies house and other links do seem to add up to an interesting story with a variety of sources.

 

It is never because someone somewhere doesn't have the money. Its because of the change in psychology that the price of coins like this one and art which costs hundreds times more can and will fall. It this wasn't true, then since the money supply keeps on expanding, prices would never decline because someone somewhere has the money and would still pay the prior price.

 

Yes, your point was the same as mine.

Somewhat different dynamics, but the collectors I know in South Africa on the BidOrBuy forum share the exact same sentiments as the OP. I have collected this series since 1998 and saw the huge run up to YE 2011. I dumped most of my collection (value wise) in 2009 and 2010. Since then, Union and ZAR have both cratered and this also applies to elite coins in these two series though they are (much) cheaper than this one.

The difference between the two is that British coins have a much wider collector base than South African. I presume the OP is an American (edited: I now see that he is not) and its my opinion that US collectors have been the primary buyers inflating the value of the better British coins and overwhelmingly for those in a TPG holder.

However, this doesn't mean that any coin is a "wealth preservation asset" as these South African collectors claim and as the OP either stated or implied. The value for the overwhelming percentage of coins is actually dependent upon the personal financial circumstances and fickle preferences of a handful of buyers. That isn't exactly something I would count on to preserve my wealth.

There are always going to be a large number who can pay the same or more as the last price. The relevant question is how many and how much? It isn't often that coins in the five or six figures sell for less than the prior price because most of the time, the owner will just wait. However, waiting could be a long time.

In the Rudman sales, two of his prominent Mexican coins sold for essentially the same price as he paid in 1985 and 1996. This can easily happen to anyone who overpays and this result was also in mostly a rising market.

 

This is true and I believe one of Baseball's prior points. Coins aren't fungible or commodities and most of the time, I presume the buyer has a strong affinity for it if they are a real collector and will just hold onto it.

 

I presume the OP is an American

The OP is an Australian ex-property developer who moved to Britain and describes his occupation as 'Producer'. He is now touting 'Rare coin investment service' and is not obviously on public record as having any connection to the putatative purchaser of the Edward VIII sovereign, a Mr. Manning whose company Regal Pawn had nett assets of about £2000 in their 2013 accounts, the year before this coin was purchased.

 

I honestly don't even think it is that complex, really I think it just boils down to two or more people wanting it at the same time with the means to do so. Obviously a single coin is a much greater risk than say the Pogue collection as the strong performers can't carry the underperformers with a single item but even then sometimes an auction appearence is nothing more than an advertisement for a private sale later on. At these levels not everyone makes themselves known and really we don't always learn about sales until well after they happened.

It was, they almost never come into positions where they have to sell something and can time their sales how they please. They also get much better deals from auction houses that will market it fully. I wasn't trying to imply there is no risk for coins like these, but rather that the general advice that had been given earlier in the thread that applies to low value coins just doesn't apply at all to coins like these. It is just an entirely different level that the majority of the planet could never operate on

 

<------ I really do own that thing.

 

Daddy. Is that you? I've been search for you. Mum said I'd find you here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Hi Everyone
Wow some of you get really personal and perhaps this is not a good place to talk about coins.
Just because I have an opinion, shared by many well advised or self taught collectors that one can collect coins and very often make substantial profits, shouldn't give rise to such personal attacks.

I have become a passionate collector of major rarities. Ed VII sovereign.
George III 5 guinea pattern and more. I choose rarities because they are KEY coins. I believe I will make a substantial profit when I choose to sell.

You are completely correct in your assumptions that these are not liquid but I wouldn't think of selling them until they are a part of something special that another collector wants and so will pay any price to get his hands on them.
There will always be the Super Rich, just be cause they loose a few billion in a crisis doesn't mean they still dont have many billions more.

I believe that the British series is hugely undervalued. If the Ed VII sov was an American coin with such history then it would be worth millions. Look at the recent $ 10,000,000 sale.

The Regal issue
When I bought the Edward VII sovereign there was an investment in a UK version of the enormous TV show hit in America called Pawn Stars and I wanted to promote the UK version of the show. I was going to go on the show promoting coins each week.
However after two years on the History channel it didn't achieve what I had hoped and Regal and associated companies were dropped.

Still wanting to promote coin collecting to the masses I chose to fund a TV series and secured Sir Tony Robinson as the presenter.
This will be in the format of " History of the world through Coins" and as producer Ive invested over £150,000 so far.
You can watch a short pilot here
You'll see Tony, Nick Knowles and myself talking about coins.
I believe that something has to be done to get the young involved in coin collecting otherwise the old men will pass and where will we get the new collectors. There are very few kids at UK shows but in America there are always areas dedicated to the young with competitions to get them in love with coins.

I hope to achieve the same with this six part TV series. Lets face it, Coins really are a major part of history and from the 5 century BC to today coins have told history. We will feature coins from around the world and tell the story of who was in power, what was happening, why etc. It will be informative fun and everyone from the British Museum to the Royal Mint are very excited.

LouisXVI losing his head after being recognized from his head on a coin
Anthony&Cleopatra with both heads on a coin
The famous 5 Guinea 1703 Vigo
Australian Holey dollar
Athelstan and his mints
Hiper-inflation and the fall of the Roman empire
and many more

So I hope that you will all get on board with supporting me in my goal of raising the awareness of the the pleasures of coin collecting and IF anyone, including myself, make an investment work, well I believe it to everyone's benefit in the Numismatic world.
Thanks Jordan

 

Hi Afantiques
I seem to have got off on the wrong foot with you my friend.
I believe in coin collecting and am putting my money on the line to promote coin collecting.
See the short pilot Ive made with Sir Tony Robinson link above
It will be good for all of us and hopefully raise the awareness of coin collecting world wide.
If i believe careful choices can make me a profit in the future, that's not a bad thing is it?
You of course are completely correct that people have lost money but its up to everyone to look carefully at what they choose to invest in if that's why they choose to buy coins.
Im, rightfully upset at your posts and hope you may see me differently now.
best regards
Jordan
Ps Im Australian Not a property developer and there were no "Investors" that was just a press release. Here is me with Ian Goldbart ex Baldwins and the beautiful coin itself.


edited to correct quote tags

 

Oh goodness. Yes Mr. Lott, we can be a wee rough an' tumbler crowd - but o'erall we are a rather sharp set.