Morgans can still have bagmarks, and be MS 68 or 69

Last time I looked, there was 1 1881s graded 69 by NGC. At that level, few collectors would submit to NGC, as the perceived value by PCGS is significantly higher for ultra gems.

 

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I didn't even check NGC for the same reason. PCGS is simply the preferred TPG for Morgan's.

 

OK, I just checked. The following has been graded MS69 by NGC:

1880-S: 5
1881-S: 1

Honestly more than I expected.

Just for fun, PCGS has graded a total of 182,308 total 1880-S Morgan's with 6 being graded MS69/69PL. NGC has graded 173,207 total 1880-S Morgan's with 5 grading MS69. So, about equal proportions.

How many of these coins have crossed back and forth...no clue.

 

There are some beautiful Morgan NGC coins. I have 2 MS 66 NGCs—1886 and 1885o. Above 66, PCGS is most definitely in the driver’s seat,

 

Define "significantly." Are we talking 10% or 50% ?

Do you think that the PCGS premium for Morgans is also fading, as I see more and more threads the last few years which attack PCGS for grade-flation or outrageous marks, presumably the stuff that happened to NGC 20+ years ago and led to the PCGS Premium in the first place.

 

None of the top 25 Morgans sold in the past 5 years at auctions have been NGC. That should say it all.

Behold, one of the finest ever. Last sold for $37,950 The best 1880s, and one of the most stunning Morgans. The Ex Jack Lee MS 69:

 

I don't think so. High end collectors of specific series tend to gravitate towards a specific TPG...with Morgan's that's PCGS. I haven't seen any evidence of that changing.

 

Many high end collectors will ONLY buy PCGS certified coins, especially older US issues, and expensive Morgans. When I sold my high end toned Morgans in 2015, the PCGS coins sold for much more at auction, especially the ones over MS 65.

 

I think as a general rule PCGS does sell for more. But there are some series where that’s not the case. High end Franklin Halves are an example of a series where NGC is preferred.

 

The 1880 S seemed like a good striking year. I have had a few over the years that were really nice ones. I like 80s and 81s coins

 

1880-S is the best struck coin in the series. 1881-S is a close second but nearly the same.

 

Yes I own a few of each! I finally quit buying all the nice ones I saw lol!

 

I would actually call them a tie. Both are superbly struck. TPGs do downgrade for less than fully struck coins on dates from 1880-1882 S mint coins.

 

But that premium wasn't there in the 1990's, right ?

SOMETHING had to have happened to cause it to appear in the first place, right ?

 

PCGS was able to position themselves as the top tier grading service. The truth is, the market has always considered NGC to be a close second even though their grading was equal in quality and in some cases even tougher. My guess is they were better at marketing. I don't have a good reason for it...but that's how the market is.

I personally think (and maybe @Morgandude11 will disagree with me)...that PCGS and NGC grade Morgan's pretty equally. This is not the case with some other series. I mentioned Franklin's earlier...it is common knowledge that NGC requires both sets of bands to be full for the FBL designation while PCGS does not. NGC is tougher on Franklin's and the market understands that.

 

Yeah, that "Franklin Gradeflation" thread over at the PCGS Forums -- I think many/most of the contributors got banned (thread is still there though, I think) -- had some ridiculous re-gradings by PCGS.

Not even a question of being looser off the bat, it was clearly re-submissions that were going up almost 2 full grades.

 

I don’t disagree with you about grading standards. NGC is as tough, and often tougher on certain coin series. Franklins are much tougher graded by NGC. So are Jefferson Nickels. Even Morgans—when I had my set of 97 Morgan regular strikes, 54 were PCGS, and 53 were NGC. I value them equally. In fact, NGC offers something for toned coins that PCGS does not—the very valued star designation.

The main difference I see between the two is perception. Many high end collectors insist on a PCGS certification, or they won’t buy the coin. I ran into that when I sold high end toned Morgans. In fact, I had to reholder a few high grade monster toned Morgans at my expense before a few sellers would buy them. Top celebrated toned Morgans, such as “The Moose” have been reholdered prior-to sale. The same goes for top registry coins in highest grades—some buyers insist on the PCGS/ CAC combination, or they won’t even bid. Do I agree with this practice? No. I see the two companies, and grading to be equal. However, there are irrational market perceptions, and they are hard to fight.

 

I owned two MS68 Morgan Dollars, they both had minor marks. Here is one.



They like a clean cheek though.

 

I still think if your buying for your collection on MS-63 to MS-65 look for ANACS yellow holders there are some bargains to be had with a chance to upgrade . Though I doubt anyone that had a Morgan with a chance at a 67 to 69 would submit to ANACS but for mid graded coins there are some nice deals and ANACS is pretty tough on Morgan’s

 

Lovely