Morgans can still have bagmarks, and be MS 68 or 69

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Morgandude11, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Just to cover discussion we’ve had before—when it gets to ultra gem Morgans, they will still have bagmarks. Here is one of the finest 1882s Morgans around. It grades MS 68 CAC. It is NOT MY COIN. Note that in the face of being an ultra Morgan, selling in the $4000-5000 range, there are a few bagmarks, die striations, and frost breaks. It is just the nature of the beast. One can’t compare them to modern coins grading MS 68 or 69. Their storage methods just invited contact with other coins. This example, once in a celebrated collection, is one of the finest Morgans ever. I probably would have graded it 68+, due to the strike, amazing luster, and outrageous eye appeal.

    0C81FA41-7FB8-4C11-95AA-7757402775D6.jpeg DA8858DB-3D36-4F5D-97C4-34FDCA1C9E26.jpeg
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  3. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    Picture the guy at the mint just tossing that into a bag with many others. Then the bag moved by stagecoach. The coins bouncing around on that ride.
  4. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    Here’s the trueview:
  5. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Clearly just missed PL, with all those striations, from die polish.
    GoldFinger1969 and manny9655 like this.
  6. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    I have always been of the opinion that the piece can be graded that high with the various marks, but should it be?

    Yes, I am very cognizant of market grading. technical grading, etc. etc.

    I am reminded of a discussion with Tiso many years ago, when we were discussing his grading methodology and pricing. He stated yes, the piece is certainly priced above the norm on any given day, and yes there is another piece with a bag mark at another table graded and priced the same. He continued (he knew I was an all things Corvette person), which brand new Corvette with limited availability would you buy, the one with the very small permanent polishing smudge on the rear bottom fender, or the one without?
  7. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    I'll be honest, I don't really see any true "bag marks" on this coin. There are a couple tiny scuffs on the jaw line and maybe one on the neck...but nothing that I would consider a "mark" from being "hit" by another coin. The devices are pretty frosted and I would almost argue (based on photos only) that these "marks" are weak areas in the frost. Perhaps seeing it in hand those opinions would change...but this coin is immaculate. The fields are completely clean and the luster is clearly booming. The contrast is nearly a PL.

    Personally, I could see this coin even earning a 69. It's that close.

    A coin like this is my dream coin. Perfectly struck, nearly flawless example of a pre-21 Morgan.
  8. COOPER12

    COOPER12 Well-Known Member

    It just has that look of near perfection . I will never own one haha. I will have to continue to try and cherry pick lower grades but I am ok with that .
    I still need a 82S and a 79s I am going back and fourth between a nice MS-66 or 64 DMPL we will see. Maybe one of each. Right now I am trying to finish my E Clash set, I have the basic set done but need a few more for my complete set. Not in ultra high grades of course as I am not rich.
    GoldFinger1969 and Morgandude11 like this.
  9. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Obvious obverse bag marks on face and small gouge on lower neck. The reverse is better, I like the Morgan and 68 seems very fair, in my opinion. Thanks for posting it.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  10. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    I think they are frost breaks, as opposed to bag marks. The predominant marks on this coin are die polish striations, which almost brought the coin up to PL. Coins are not grade penalized for die markers, generally, unless they affect eye appeal, which they do not. The green bean, plus my experience with Morgans tell me that this coin is closer to 68+, and very near 69. It is truly one of the great Morgans.
    GoldFinger1969 and capthank like this.
  11. capthank

    capthank Well-Known Member

    Beautiful coin.
  12. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Beautiful coin I can think it getting a 69.Hey I just realized imagine if they just gave it a 70 to break coin history and be famous might happen soon lol.
    capthank likes this.
  13. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Maybe at the very bottom of the neckline, just above-left of the '1' in date...can't be sure from photo what that is. Also, in the hair, just above-right of the ear...those are only places I can see but wholly agree a gem above gems.
  14. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Indeed a great example to consider...and it somehow settled in the bag just right and beat the odds all the way to its destination. That, or was held out by someone/somewhere...not sure what was allowed back then for legitimately holding/saving out...buying 5 or 10 with a gold piece...some random dollar(s) here/there, etc.
    GoldFinger1969 likes this.
  15. Certainly, the Morgan dollar is, in my opinion and those of others, one of the, if not the best American coin available. It's beauty and engraving far surpass may others and I wish I could afford to collect them.
  16. tibor

    tibor Well-Known Member

    As with most things, this time bagmarks, it's location location, location.
  17. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    Absolutely. Get prominent bag marks on the cheek, neck, or in the left hand fields of the obverse, it is a grade killer for Morgans. Get a couple of bagmarks on the wreath, or just above the eagle, and they are ignored by TPGs, if they aren’t deep, broad, or prominent.
  18. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    How many Morgan 69's are there ?

    Hard to believe that with Morgan collectors around in size since the 1880's and 1920's for Saints that we never got 1 coin that can grade an MS70 (came close with the Wells Hoard).:mad:
    OldSilverDollar likes this.
  19. Morgandude11

    Morgandude11 As long as it's Silver, I'm listening

    There are no 69s graded by PCGS of this date (1882s). There are 11 at 68+, and as I have said, this coin should have been graded 68+, and the CAC bean kind of vindicates that idea. This coin was in a celebrated collection. For some reason, when it was reholdered, they omitted the pedigree. It is Ex Eliasberg. I know the owner of this coin very well. He is my cousin.
  20. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    For all many 69's are there ?
    Morgandude11 likes this.
  21. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title] Supporter

    Accord to the PCGS population there are 8 coins graded MS69 and 1 coin graded MS69PL for the entire Morgan series. The sole MS69PL is a 1880-S. Also, 5 of the 8 graded MS69 are also 1880-S. Two of them are 1881-S and one is 1896-S.
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