Morgan experiment--Generic MS Morgan.

If he does that Doug I would suggest that after dipping half of it (in jewelry dip, not acetone) and running it under a warm tap for a minute to remove most of the dip that he then soak it in warm water with baking soda to neutralize the dip then a final soak in acetone. If not, there's a high likelihood that some miniscule dip residue will cause the toning to look mottled

 

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Now hear this: and remember this: ACETONE HAS NO EFFECT ON TONING! ACETONE ONLY REMOVES ORGANIC GUNK.

 

Interesting that the two of you have suggested that. I also picked up this coin last week from the same seller--an 1881s. Grade is about the same as the first (actually I would say slightly better--maybe a 64). Luster is the same, although it has somewhat less frost. The images were taken with the same camera and cropped to the same size exactly. As soon as I have a nice, sunny day, I am going to dip one of them, and not the other, and see what happens with the window sill treatment. It has been a rainy week here, and I will show progress pictures. Figure this experiment will go on for about 1-2 months, and see if there is any progress.

Here is coin 2: Let us call the 1880s "coin 1" for the sake of the experiment. Both coins cost the exact same price, and are generic MS coins for their date, and are fairly clean, with good strikes, and nice luster.

 

These are two different coins with two different histories. We don't know anything about where they've been, what they've been exposed to, whether or how many times they've been dipped in the past and when, nor even how they each came through the Mint planchet preparation process. Nothing that happens to the one can be construed as evidence relevant to the other. That's why Doug suggested dipping half of one; it's the only comparison which isn't applesranges.

 

Show me a 1880-S or 1881-S that's NOT pretty nice. They run absolutely beautiful by and large.

 

They are as close to identical as I could find. Let's see what I am going to do--perhaps dip half of each? I have a feeling that they came from the same storage situation, even though they have slightly different histories.

 

Beg to differ. I have dipped fugly toned silver coins in acetone before and it removed ugly toning.

 

Then it wasn't "toning" in the sense of silver sulfides, it was organic gunk. Ask anyone with expertise here, heck, ask @GDJMSP. Acetone has precisely ZERO effect on actual toning.

 

Yeah. It wasn't toning. Must have been glue or some other form of colorful organic gunk.

 

@Morgandude11

Nobody here, at least certainly not your humble narrator, is questioning your ethics, intent or judgment.

As another member said -- paraphrasing -- it's discomfort with the fact that Lord knows who is watching this site and what not-so-appropriate ideas they may take from it. Perhaps, I am overstating the actual hazard. But I hope you will not take it personally. It was not intended to be that.

Peace!

 

Yes, I understand that completely. However, I think that anybody who is inclined to doctor a coin and sell it would do that, no matter what is said here. There are so many dishonest eBay sellers who pass off obvious AT coins as market acceptable, long before I could even begin to do this experiment. This will neither encourage, nor discourage them from doing exactly that. I consider this purely scientific, and curious.

 

Good thread... IMO, since it's not artificial toning, if the color comes out nice touching one of the materials, dip it and tone it again. Then, sell it and sleep like a baby as it is not artificial.
IMO, the best way to beat a crook is to know their MO.

Well we see where you stand on things: the wealthy collectors are not considered people. You may need to check in to a reprograming "camp" to get an education.

cpm9ball, posted: "There is nothing wrong with conducting an experiment for your own personal learning experience," (...and you have my permission? What!) "but to think that there aren't people who would use that knowledge"... We don't even know if the coins will come out butt ugly. Putting a coin on the window sill is taught in COIN ALTERATION FOR KIDS. We put several different metal squares in a window sill in 7th grade (private school chemistry class ) "...for their personal gain at the expense of others is being a bit naïve. Harmless? Victimless? Tell that to the people who buy so-called NT coins from the shysters only to learn that they are not acceptable to the collecting community." Tough Love: Ignorant sheep deserve to get eaten. Makes the world go around.
"This is why I'm against posting your intended experiment and the results of it on an open forum." The sheep (who will not see this) thank you for your concern. Fortunately, the internet and books are filled with more info about altering metal than anything done in this experiment. I cannot wait to start playing around again! Wish I had access to a laser so I could see what that does!

This is a great idea. I should have dipped the coin completely to make it more susceptible to the environment.

Now hear this: ACETONE WILL LIGHTEN the color of TONING. I'm not going to get into the - if the oxidation had an organic coating or the application of the acetone removed loose oxidation particles. It just CAN change the color of the oxidation. Take it to the bank as I've done it hundreds of times. See quote from a dollar expert below:

DITTO

 

Regardless how much one uses red text, "toning" on silver is not "oxidation", it is umm, sulfurization, if that's a word. Silver oxide is what makes a battery in an old Canon AE-1 SLR work. If there is other junk present, THAT is your "lightening". Chemistry is not up for a vote or a fancy text exhibition. If acetone removes it, it ain't and never was toning per se, UNLESS you define ALL color on a coin "toning". I suspect the people who paint ASE's might like that veneer of respectability.

Yes, you can say "I've seen it" or even "I've done it", but that doesn't mean you knew what is was.

 

Now, now. Taking the silver from 0 to +1 is "oxidizing" it, whether the thing it's combining with is oxygen, sulfur, chlorine, or something else. Fluorine, the most powerfully oxidizing element, will even oxidize oxygen.

I think you've hit on the critical point, though:

Or if you say "toning is what a coin gets from sitting out in the air", in which case it can include dust, soot, and grease -- all of which can affect color. I tend to agree with your definition (toning = formation of a chemical compound with the top layer of the coin's metal), but I can imagine others disagreeing.

 

Okay, so then the gunk on my hands after I get done working on the old four-wheeled money pit is now toning. Good to know.

 

Hahaha I have my coins shipped to my shop, so there are times when my hands are black when I open up the packages. However, I handle the coins while still in their flips or 2x2's lol. Maybe I should start handling them direct...

 

Didn't say it was natural toning. But then I hope neither of us are quite ready to be slabbed just yet anyhow...

 

Yep! Centuries ago, the wealthy were "the have's" and the people were "the have not's". If someone ever develops a time machine, you are welcome to be the first person transported back to the 13th or 14th century to be left there, permanently. Perhaps you could find a large stone somewhere on which you could carve a message for us to tell us what life is like for you.