Featured More to this than meets the eye

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by TIF, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    I agree. I checked around a bit yesterday on the web and couldn't find any really close examples to the vase on your coin recorded on temple walls, and I checked various temples - Denderah (Hathor) and home to an Osiris chapel. Kom Ombo (Sobek, Haerois) where most of the reliefs and construction date to the time between Ptolemy VI and Ptolemy VIII, Esna (Khnum) where the latest reliefs date to the time of Trajan, and Karnak (Amen-Ra) - and the libation vessels depicted are not very close to your type @TIF .

    The fresco showing one of Isis' ceremonies above looks pretty close, and it would make sense that your coin is honoring Isis because of the great popularity of her cult during the first-third centuries A.D. It also could be that Osiris is being honored, as well. Anyway, more research is probably in order.
     
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Thanks for your ongoing efforts! I wonder when the names we're giving to the vessel (oinochoe, urnula, hydreion, etc) were conceived-- contemporary with the coin, or by researchers at a later day?

    I did a quick google for urnula and found gobs of image of cup fungi :D. Narrowing it down by adding "Egyptian" fixed that but didn't lead to more hits. I'm sure we'll come up with more :)

    I'm still hoping to learn more about the inverted droplets on my coin's vessel. Per Dattari, they are uraei. I don't think that is correct. Perhaps I'm becoming too invested in the "resurrection of Osiris ritual corn mummy watering can" theory :D.

    Thanks! It really is a remarkable example. The detail on the canopus is amazing for such a tiny canvas! Comparing it to the Osiris-Canopus from Hadrian's Villa, most of the design elements are represented:

    HadrianTetOsirisCanopus-HadrianVillaOsirisCanopus.jpg
     
  5. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Well-Known Member

    Thanks @Ken Dorney. I figured as much and was more interested in the design of them; but, as I thought about your remark it seemed important, (so no one think they were authentic), to add a clarifying statement to my earlier post, which I have done. Thanks again.
     
    Theodosius, TIF and Ryro like this.
  6. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    I also saw the fungus! I did find a book, Urnula Faberrime Cavata: Observations on a Vessel Used in the Cult of Isis by Elfriede Regina Knauer but it is expensive and might be in German.

    The even more expensive book Romanising Oriental Gods: Myth, Salvation, and Ethics in the Cults of Cybele says:
    urnula1.png
    urnula2.png

    An English translation of Apuleius describes the arrival of the goddess:
    ... In her right hand was a bronze
    sistrum, a narrow strip of metal curved back on itself like a sword-
    belt and pierced by a number of thin rods, which when shaken in
    triple time gave off a rattling sound. From her left hand hung a gold
    pitcher [urnula], the upper part of its handle in the form of a rampant asp
    with head held aloft and neck puffed out.

    https://archive.org/stream/TheGoldenAss_201509/TheGoldenAsspenguinClassics-Apuleius_djvu.txt

    I suspect there is no evidence that the picture we have seen is Apulius' "urnula". Instead people have been looking for something in art matching that description. I would love to be proven wrong if anyone can track down the references. The "Procession" referred to is this one, and I suspect they mean the second figure's vase.
    Procession.jpg
     
  7. Leopard

    Leopard New Member

    Wow, it was really cool
     
    TIF likes this.
  8. Lycra Poopin

    Lycra Poopin New Member

    i salute with ancient Egypt
     
    TIF likes this.
  9. ShannaS

    ShannaS Active Member

    I love the analysis you did on your coin. I am also reminded to the gold stater of Nektanebo II when I look at your coin. As an aside, there are so many interesting reverse types on Alexandrian coins that are coming up in auction, particularly Naville, who sells a lot of ex-Dattari for the moment. They are a treat to collect for certain. I'm also not sure what it could be as it seems to be a mixture of things. I know someone that is a Egyptologist so if you want to contact me privately perhaps we could figure this conundrum out.
     
    TIF likes this.
  10. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Hey Shanna, thanks! I'll contact you privately. I had intended to send inquiries to some Egyptology departments but life has been busy.

    As for the Naville Dattari lots... yep, I've been snatching up whatever lots the Clios of the world don't take :D
     
  11. ShannaS

    ShannaS Active Member

    Just know that Clio definitely is a generous person so I bet if you make it known you want something that Clio will step aside :)
     
    Alegandron likes this.
  12. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    I found that out in CNG 365, in which I changed my bidder name to a plea and bid an hour or two before closing hoping he'd see it. It worked :joyful::joyful:

    [​IMG]



    I have since met Clio and don't begrudge him any coins. That wasn't always the case though...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Now when I win CNG coins, especially provincials, I worry because Clio didn't want it, LOL!
     
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